Afghan Sex Crisis - WOW

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by goodwood, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. goodwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,804
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
    FOXNews.com - Afghan Men Struggle With Sexual Identity, Study Finds

    WOW is about all I can say to this article. The Pashtun tribe of Afghani men believe in sexually satisfying themselves with men only, yet they absolutely refuse to identify this behavior as homosexual and one man
    said that the thought of sexual pleasure with a woman was unthinkable
    as they are "unclean" and only for child birth.
    I am thankful I am not afflicted by such a thought process. lol.
     
  2. D_Kissimmee Coldsore

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why should they accept another culture's label for something that happens in their culture and is often nothing like male-on-male sex in Western culture?

    Pashtun Homosexuality 1
     
  3. Zeuhl34

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,104
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    I know it's a different culture and whatnot, but my initial response to reading that (your summary at least) was "lol wut"
     
  4. closetfreak

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    219
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    formerly DC
    Verified:
    Photo
    yeah, its the truth. theres a lot of hypocrisy about some things
     
  5. D_Helmer Heighballs

    D_Helmer Heighballs New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    1
    hmm, not even read the article, but really guys y'all should know you gotta take anythin FOX says with about a bucket of salt. even i know that living in the uk. i want to say proerganda but ill reserve judgment untill i see it for myself. that is if i ever get bored enuf to read an article like that
     
  6. goodwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,804
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
    I just found it - i guess i will say 'unusual' that men enjoy sex with each other, and not with women, yet somehow don't consider that homosexual. I mean - more power to anyone that is able to find and enjoy sex with someone of their own choosing, it just seems like if that's men with other men, that would indeed be homosexual.
     
  7. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,610
    Likes Received:
    5
    No more homosexual than men in prison who have relations with other men ... knowing full well that when they are released, their only interest will be women.
    I guess they're saying that the act is not expressing a fundamentally homosexual orientation.

    I found the same thing in Morocco. Men would express contempt for gays but wonder if you'd like a nice lil' hop in bed.
    You can find this information in far more credible sources than FOX, y'know.
    And why would FOX (not my favorite news outlet) not want to get this right?
     
    #7 D_Gunther Snotpole, Jan 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  8. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8


    You're right Rubi, and that attitude is common in Islamic countries the world over. While homosexuality is held in contempt, homosex which is a different thing is relatively commonplace.

    In the case of Iran and Afghanistan, there is evidence to suggest that in some places the practice of situational homosex may be a remnant of the Greek social-homosex culture left behind by the hellenistic empire of Alexander the Great and his successors. In rural and isolated regions of eastern Iran and western Afghanistan an almost identical homosex culture exists to that which Alexander the Great would have recognised.

    It's important to remember that homosex and homosexuality are different things, one is purely a sex act, the other is a distinct sexuality. The ancient Greeks in common with the Afghan tribe in the OP made a distinction between sex acts between men and the actual sexual orientation, Homosexuality. In both cases homosex is seen as vital to male bonding, and via that to the cohesion of the society in question, on the other hand homosexuality is seen as deviant and revolting because in the culture in question homosexuality is regarded as being an unnatural desire, indeed in some of the Islamic cultures in which these attitudes are common it is commonly thought that male homosexuals (as opposed to essentially straight men engaging in homosex acts) are possessed by demons or Jinn.
     
    #8 D_Tim McGnaw, Jan 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  9. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,610
    Likes Received:
    5
    True, dat.
    But it's funny ... so much of their poetry has undertones (or even overtones) that seem squarely homosexual.
    Ephebophilic is probably the word.

    Here's a poem by Abu Nuwas, an 8th Century Persian/Arab poet:


    I die of love for him, perfect in every way,
    Lost in the strains of wafting music.
    My eyes are fixed upon his delightful body
    And I do not wonder at his beauty.
    His waist is a sapling, his face a moon,
    And loveliness rolls off his rosy cheek
    I die of love for you, but keep this secret:
    The tie that binds us is an unbreakable rope.
    How much time did your creation take, O angel?
    So what! All I want is to sing your praises.


    Some consider Nuwas the greatest Arab poet. He's clearly on the team.
     
  10. dreamer20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Providence
    *Ahem* Alexander didn't invent homosexuality for those cultures i.e. it was already in existence. :cool:
     
  11. D_Inglethorp Rumpshow

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've talked to 4th Infantry Division soldiers and they told me that some Iraqi men would consider the soldiers to be feminine because they wore a clean shave, but saw no problem with having sex with other men.
     
  12. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    I love that poem, and you're right ephebophilia seems to have been endemic in medieval Islamic societies.

    I suppose in a world in which you presume the existence of the supernatural in almost everything, such as medieval societies, the idea that the fellow next door is possessed by Jinn and lusts after boys is less worrying, because that's normalised by the fact that Jinn made your tomatoes blacken, and your cow loose its calf, and your front door close on your thumb.

    It must be said that Islamic attitudes towards homosexuality have hardened in the last couple of centuries, perhaps in line with the retreat of Islamic mysticism.

    I can't remember off hand if Abu Nuwas was a Sufi or not, but the Sufis frequently practiced homosex and seem to have been most welcoming of Homosexuals too.
     
  13. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    *Ahem* I don't think you read what I wrote about the cultural distinction between Homosex and Homosexuality, that being the cultural attitude introduced by Hellenistic culture, along with the cultural value placed upon homosex and the cultural devaluation of homosexuality. A devaluation later increased by the introduction of Islam.

    Naturally, and being as I'm am not a retard I did not think that Alexander the Great had invented Bactrian and Khwarizmian Homosexuality. :rolleyes:
     
    #13 D_Tim McGnaw, Jan 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  14. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,610
    Likes Received:
    5
    Fascinating thought, though I have no idea of its truth value.

    FWIW, I've never heard that he was a Sufi. But maybe he was.
     
  15. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    14,610
    Likes Received:
    5
    Whatever you say, Hil.:cool:
     
  16. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    :biggrin1::mad::eek::biggrin1: You sweet talker you.
     
  17. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    I suppose that strictly speaking he was a bit too early to have been directly influenced by Sufism, which had it's apogee later on, but he was a part of a broader mysticality in Islamic culture, rather like Omar Khayam. That culture was surprisingly rather more humane and more forgiving than the influential Islamic cultural trends which have gained ground in the last 150 or 200 years.
     
  18. dreamer20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,492
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Providence
    I read what you postulated and stated that what you described, "social-homsex culture" of ancient Iran/ Persia, predates Alexander's empire by many centuries.


    Islamic society was tolerant of m2m sex until the Ottoman Empire adopted western Europe's intolerance towards homosexuality in the 19th century.

    Islam and Ottoman Times

    AlterHros -Homosexuality and Same-Sex Acts in Islam
     
  19. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8
    That is not what you said. You implied by your statement that I was silly enough to think the Homosexuality in eastern Iran and Afghanistan had not existed until Alexander.


    That would have been a fairly broad misreading of what I had said. I was making the point that a very specific form of cultural homosex, which had been a central part of Hellenistic culture had been brought to Khwarizmia and Bactria by Alexander and his heirs.

    That homosexuality and indeed other cultural attitudes towards homosex existed in Persia, or its immediate hinterland before Alexander is a given.

    Part of what influences the modern culture of homosex in some parts of eastern Iran and western Afghanistan is Hellenistic in origin, something I am not the first to suggest, and I wouldn't suggest it unless I had learnt of it from well regarded sources on the matter.




    *Ahem* Some Islamic societies had been tolerant of homosexuality and some had been less so, but I agree with you that western influences on the Ottoman dominated middle east during the 18th and 19th century did have some role to play in the hardening of attitudes towards homosexuality.
     
    #19 D_Tim McGnaw, Jan 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  20. closetfreak

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    219
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    formerly DC
    Verified:
    Photo
    i lived in afghanistan for two years and im going back in a few months after a siz month break. we had about a dozen local workers that did warehouse work for us and the common consensus is: women are for babies, boys are for pleasure
     
Draft saved Draft deleted