Afghanistan Government Has Collapse In Taliban Takeover!!

BillM

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slinger01

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Regardless of politics opinions this is not good. The Taliban will continue to ruin that country.
But I am of the opinion that the US mission should have concluded when a certain 9/11 mastermind was killed over the border in Pakistan.

Sure we could have stayed. But for what? The govt was unable to function on its own, the military was fickle at best, and the Taliban has been content to wait, watch and prepare. Our being there did not make us safer. It dragged us into deeper quagmires and served to build up our own reliance on the wealth of the military industrial complex.
Nevertheless, it is awful to see how fast the country has fallen.
 

g_diesel

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Regardless of politics opinions this is not good. The Taliban will continue to ruin that country.
But I am of the opinion that the US mission should have concluded when a certain 9/11 mastermind was killed over the border in Pakistan.

Sure we could have stayed. But for what? The govt was unable to function on its own, the military was fickle at best, and the Taliban has been content to wait, watch and prepare. Our being there did not make us safer. It dragged us into deeper quagmires and served to build up our own reliance on the wealth of the military industrial complex.
Nevertheless, it is awful to see how fast the country has fallen.
Completely agree. I went through some newspapers around the world - they are laughing at us, especially Russia. So embarrassing, so much money wasted and so many people dead.. for what.
 
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zinderel

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I'm so glad that the 20+ years of the GOP's Forever War wasn't a complete waste of money, time, and human life.

I mean...it's not like the war profiteers who got us into that mess could POSSIBLY have known not to get int a land war in Asia...

"They'll greet us as liberators!" Fuck you, Rummy. And we need to make sure THIS albatross hangs heavy on the neck of the entire GOP, whose lies cost us...everything we hold dear. Every day of the past 20 years, thanks to the blatant war profiteering by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest of the rats, we lost our children, our international standing, our financial security, our national security...all so they could make and stockpile more money.

Add in the absolute fuckery of the Trump Cult stripping what little respectability and hope we had left, and the entire decline of the US can ALL can be laid at the feet of the GOP, our very own Taliban (pretending to be pious and hiding behind violent religious fundamentalist dogma while seeking nothing but power, material wealth, and dominance over all they survey, at any cost).

I'm heartsick and FURIOUS about this.

ALL of it. And we need to
 

James0909

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Biden was literally the architect behind this. 8 years as VP, President during this, and people still defend the guy.

He (along with the Democratic Party) is going to be hung out to dry in 2022 and 2024.
 

James0909

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I'm so glad that the 20+ years of the GOP's Forever War wasn't a complete waste of money, time, and human life.

I mean...it's not like the war profiteers who got us into that mess could POSSIBLY have known not to get int a land war in Asia...

"They'll greet us as liberators!" Fuck you, Rummy. And we need to make sure THIS albatross hangs heavy on the neck of the entire GOP, whose lies cost us...everything we hold dear. Every day of the past 20 years, thanks to the blatant war profiteering by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest of the rats, we lost our children, our international standing, our financial security, our national security...all so they could make and stockpile more money.

Add in the absolute fuckery of the Trump Cult stripping what little respectability and hope we had left, and the entire decline of the US can ALL can be laid at the feet of the GOP, our very own Taliban (pretending to be pious and hiding behind violent religious fundamentalist dogma while seeking nothing but power, material wealth, and dominance over all they survey, at any cost).

I'm heartsick and FURIOUS about this.

ALL of it. And we need to

Pure partisan bullshit

Completely avoids mentioning ANY democrat
 

NCbear

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This is a failure of the United States, not a political party. This back-and-forth jockeying for power ignores the fact that we’re seen as one country by the rest of the world—and rightly so.

After this, our national security is going to be under threat even more.

And I weep for Afghans’ rights and freedoms.

NCbear (who thinks past and present US administrations bear responsibility for this debacle)
 
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James0909

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This is a failure of the United States, not a political party. This back-and-forth jockeying for power ignores the fact that we’re seen as one country by the rest of the world—and rightly so.

After this, our national security is going to be under threat even more.

And I weep for Afghans’ rights and freedoms.

NCbear (who thinks past and present US administrations bear responsibility for this debacle)

I have to appreciate the irony in this though

When Trump did something bad, it was purely his fault.

When Biden does something bad, it’s the fault of everyone.

Similar rhetoric is espoused by modern ‘progressive’ atheists:

- When Christianity does something bad, it’s the fault of Christians.

- When islam does something bad, it’s the fault of all religion.
 

b.c.

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I'm so glad that the 20+ years of the GOP's Forever War wasn't a complete waste of money, time, and human life.

I mean...it's not like the war profiteers who got us into that mess could POSSIBLY have known not to get int a land war in Asia...

"They'll greet us as liberators!" Fuck you, Rummy. And we need to make sure THIS albatross hangs heavy on the neck of the entire GOP, whose lies cost us...everything we hold dear. Every day of the past 20 years, thanks to the blatant war profiteering by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest of the rats, we lost our children, our international standing, our financial security, our national security...all so they could make and stockpile more money.

Add in the absolute fuckery of the Trump Cult stripping what little respectability and hope we had left, and the entire decline of the US can ALL can be laid at the feet of the GOP, our very own Taliban (pretending to be pious and hiding behind violent religious fundamentalist dogma while seeking nothing but power, material wealth, and dominance over all they survey, at any cost).

I'm heartsick and FURIOUS about this.

ALL of it. And we need to

What they've done to our country and the evil minded, hate based nature of it all is indeed infuriating, Zin, especially when one considers (much like the Afghanistan withdrawal) 50 plus years of effort, by millions of people, from grass roots efforts to noted national leaders, some of whom died for it, STRUGGLING, suffering persecution, being spat upon, being jailed, shot and worse... to bring this country out of the dark days of Jim Crow, segregation and discrimination

Only to have it, in many ways, seem as though nothing has been gained.

Trump and the ideology that his followers have embraced has set this country back, erasing much of that progress, to the point that one noted civil rights leader (as cited in a recent article) even commented that in some ways it's actually WORSE.

And for all they've done and are trying YET to do, they don't want us to know about it, know our history, and they don't want us to talk about it. They want to set the narrative and replace fact with fiction and outright lies.

They're trying to shut down TRUTH. Being "woke" (AWARE) is now a sin.

Now they're trying to pin the Afghan withdrawal on President Biden. Is it happening under Biden's watch? Yes. Will he and his legacy share responsibility? Yes. But this debacle is not of Biden's making alone.

As noted in a number of articles that've run just yesterday, Trump and Pompeo in effect courted the Taliban. Returned some 5,000 Taliban prisons who, as also reported, are presently among the leaders who took the country's capital.

Also reported is the fact that they (Trump and Pompeo) in effect LEGITIMIZED the Taliban, and sought a peace deal with them without including the Afghan government the U.S. were supposedly defending in any of the talks,

Trump even reportedly had talked about inviting them to Camp David and on the anniversary of 9/11 no less! (If you can imagine such an insult.) He called the Taliban "a partner for peace," and told us that the Taliban was going to "fight terror," and renounce Al Qaeda (they did none of that).

So in effect (and as usual), Trump * Co. sold us yet another bill of goods.

Also it should go without saying, shared blame goes to the Afghan military who, after TWENTY YEARS of training, support, intel, weaponry, supplies, and equipment, just threw down their weapons. According to all reports (I've read) the Taliban were met with NO resistance.

And given the investment America made in them, I'd say that's pretty sad.
 
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James0909

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What they've done to our country and the evil minded, hate based nature of it all is indeed infuriating, Zin, especially when one considers (much like the Afghanistan withdrawal) 50 plus years of effort, by millions of people, from grass roots efforts to noted national leaders, some of whom died for it, to bring this country out of the dark days of Jim Crow, segregation and discrimination, to have it, in many ways, seem as though nothing has been gained.

Trump and the ideology that his followers have embraced has set this country back, erasing much of that progress, to the point that one noted civil rights leader (as noted in a recent article) even commented that in some ways it's worse.

And now they're trying to pin the Afghan withdrawal on President Biden. Is it happening under Biden's watch? Yes. Will he and his legacy share responsibility? Yes. But this debacle is not of Biden's making alone.

As noted in a number of articles that've run just yesterday, Trump and Pompeo in effect courted the Taliban. Returned some 5,000 Taliban prisons who, as reported, are presently among their leaders. Also reported is the fact that they in effect legitimized the Taliban, sought a peace deal with them without including the Afghan government the U.S. were supposedly defending,

Trump even reportedly having talked about inviting them to Camp David and on the anniversary of 9/11 (if you can imagine such an insult). He called the Taliban "a partner for peace," and told us that the Taliban was going to fight terror, and renounce Al Qaeda. They did none of that.

And it goes without saying shared blame goes to the Afghan military who, after TWENTY YEARS of training, support, intel, weaponry, supplies, and equipment, just threw down their weapons. According to all reports I've heard, the Taliban were met with NO resistance.


Biden was in complete control of the withdrawal and he screwed it up.

You didn’t even ONCE mention his name. Pathetic really, yet you liked a post lambasting all sides.
 

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Biden was in complete control of the withdrawal and he screwed it up.

You didn’t even ONCE mention his name. Pathetic really, yet you liked a post lambasting all sides.

On the contrary. I DID mention him. RIGHT HERE:

Now they're trying to pin the Afghan withdrawal on President Biden. Is it happening under Biden's watch? Yes. Will he and his legacy share responsibility? Yes. But this debacle is not of Biden's making alone.
 

zinderel

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Obama and Biden ABSOLUTELY shit the bed on this.

No argument.

But it was the GOP who got us into this war. It was a GOP administration whose members directly profited from the deaths of millions. It is the GOP who used a nation's shock and outrage to start ALL of this for profit. It is the GOP who used the veneer of religious fundamentalism to justify their War of convenience which destabilized the entire region and put massive profits in their pockets.

Obama didn't pull us out when he had the opportunity. Shame on him.
Trump didn't pull us out when he had the opportunity. Shame on him.
Biden has botched the current pull out and likely doomed translators and other allies to horrible deaths by failing to anticipate the lunatics in charge of the Taliban. Shame on him.

All that said however, doesn't change the one vital FACT here: The GOP CAUSED this. They manipulated all of us into supporting their war profiteering, and they used Religion to drive a wedge between us to keep us distracted. They caused an entire generation of soldiers untold trauma and suffering and death for the sake of money. They hide behind false piety and claims of 'deep faith' to mask their greed, their bigotry, and their utter disdain for human life. We all see it. They've just cheated so well over the last 50 years with their gerrymandering, and voter purges, and refusal to do the job we pay them to do (y'know...effectively running the country?) that we can't hold them accountable. Hooray for America...

I don't blame Trump for this. I blame the corrupt political party that set this all in motion, which he has simply led further down the crapper. Trump is a whole different albatross the GOP gets to wear for all Time.
 

James0909

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Obama and Biden ABSOLUTELY shit the bed on this.

No argument.

But it was the GOP who got us into this war. It was a GOP administration whose members directly profited from the deaths of millions. It is the GOP who used a nation's shock and outrage to start ALL of this for profit. It is the GOP who used the veneer of religious fundamentalism to justify their War of convenience which destabilized the entire region and put massive profits in their pockets.

Obama didn't pull us out when he had the opportunity. Shame on him.
Trump didn't pull us out when he had the opportunity. Shame on him.
Biden has botched the current pull out and likely doomed translators and other allies to horrible deaths by failing to anticipate the lunatics in charge of the Taliban. Shame on him.

All that said however, doesn't change the one vital FACT here: The GOP CAUSED this. They manipulated all of us into supporting their war profiteering, and they used Religion to drive a wedge between us to keep us distracted. They caused an entire generation of soldiers untold trauma and suffering and death for the sake of money. They hide behind false piety and claims of 'deep faith' to mask their greed, their bigotry, and their utter disdain for human life. We all see it. They've just cheated so well over the last 50 years with their gerrymandering, and voter purges, and refusal to do the job we pay them to do (y'know...effectively running the country?) that we can't hold them accountable. Hooray for America...

I don't blame Trump for this. I blame the corrupt political party that set this all in motion, which he has simply led further down the crapper. Trump is a whole different albatross the GOP gets to wear for all Time.

Obama and his Democratic administration was essentially Bush 2.0. It’s not that he just didn’t “pull out”, he actively expanded it (into Syria etc).

Funny how so many are unwilling to admit that just because it comes from the Blue ties instead of the Red. If it wasn’t started by Bush after 9/11, Obama would’ve found an excuse.
 
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chrisrobin

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What is so amazing is not the fact that the Taliban moved so fast but that the allies didn't see it coming till it was to late.
Trump, as he shouted in a rant yesterday had set up, in theory a way for an organised withdrawal. However it was still only at discussion time and dealing with a weak self interested President of Afghanistan, a man who didn't have support or the power to do what he said only showed that the Trump team were complicit in agreeing to something they knew would never work.
However that still doesn't excuse the lack of information coming from the front fort the powers to act on - or maybe once again those in charge didn't believe or want to belief what they were hearing.
Its not just the USA in this but NATO and the EU, many other countries had troops involved that needed to be pulled out quickly, none of those countries had been consulted before firstly Trump made the call - stunning his own war chiefs - and that was followed by the Biden action last month which happened without even informing the local garrison.
This was never going to be a war or an occupation that ended well, the fact that's its almost but in a way that far from giving freedom and safety to the country had allowed a dictatorial group to take charge without any opposition.
For this there is only one person to blame for this and that's the guy who said 20 years ago lets take over the country and eliminate terrorists - without thinking in terms of the an end game.
 

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Seven and a half years AFTER 9/11, Obama would have gotten the U.S. militarily involved in Afghanistan?
Please offer ONE reason to think so.
Just ONE.

Uhhh he led the hunt of bin laden, yes?

If bush didn’t do anything, Obama would’ve and people like you would’ve cheered him on anyway.

Obama isn’t a deity. He’s a crappy politician.