Whoa! Paranoid much?
I posted in reply because I wanted to agree with you about lumpectomies but did not want to lead the thread OT on to a discussion of appropriate levels of treatment for breast cancer.
After a radical mastectomy would you reconstruct?
- Thread starter Northland
- Start date
Whoa! Paranoid much?
I posted in reply because I wanted to agree with you about lumpectomies but did not want to lead the thread OT on to a discussion of appropriate levels of treatment for breast cancer.
Riven650
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My wife has lost both breasts to cancer. After losing the first one (about 6 years ago) she was given a prosthetic breast form to put in her bra. It looked good when she was fully clothed, but in the summer she found it hot and sticky. I couldn't work out if I liked it. It did a great job of disguising the fact that she was one breasted, but when she got undressed I always got a bit of a psychological jolt. It was like 'now you see it, now you don't', and I realised I wasn't properly getting used to the way she looked because of the 'normal' way she presented by day. She went to see a top plastic surgeon and booked a reconstruction. But before the surgery date the remaining breast broke out in inflammatory breast cancer and she had to have that off too. Lots of nasty chemo too, which nearly killed her by knocking out her immune system and letting septicemia develop. She recovered from that and a few months later went to see the surgeon again and got booked in for a double reconstruction. But it wasn't to be. The cancer came back again. This time in the form of brain tumors. It very nearly killed her again too, but steroids and radiotherapy sorted that out. At that stage we were told it was terminal (ie. she might have weeks to live, months maybe) and all thoughts of reconstruction were brushed aside. However, two more years have elapsed and she's doing fine. We've forgotten all about reconstruction. We're sure the oncologist would be against it, and in the scheme of things it's not something that matters to either of us any more.
The cancer has given our sex life one hell of a pounding. From the outset my wife had to take tamoxifen to starve the cancer of oestrogen. As you can imagine, that plunged her into a second menopause, further reducing libido and leaving her vagina fragile and lacking lubrication. So it affected her body image by taking her breasts (one at a time), it reduced her desire, and made sex uncomfortable for her. It was also difficult for me because, to be honest, I'd always been a bit of a tit fetishist and one tit doesn't quite do it. No tits is even more difficult. On top of that, without her hormones working she didn't give off the phermones that help to turn me on. All in all it's no surprise that sex became less and less frequent. And I'm talking about the good times between bouts of treatments, during which, of course sex was out of the question. So instead of fucking, I'd give her a back and/or foot massage. She'd give me a massage or a hand job. Not the sex life we'd once enjoyed, but better than no contact, and my frustration was being at least slightly alleviated.
Since the brain tumors she hasn't been taking any hormone suppressing drugs (oncologist said they weren't working anyway), and more recently I noticed that my wife's skin tone has improved. We've felt like having sex recently and have had about 3 or 4 pretty good fucks this year. Sadly, she can't come. Not even when she tries to masturbate. She hasn't been able to since before the brain tumors and all the steroids etc. So it's been looking like our sex life might not be over after all. Except... She has her blood checked every three weeks when she goes to hospital for her herceptin treatment, and her tumor markers (abnormal cell count) which had been steady in the normal range have steadily climbed. Not fast, but it's a trend. She's just had full CT scans and the oncologist says there's 'nothing significant' but he'll keep a closer eye on her. It just hit me this week that the rising tumer markers coincide with the improvement in my wife's skin tone and sex drive and maybe her oestrogen is fighting back. Perhaps that's stimulating the cancer. We use lube of course, but my wife says she's even getting a bit of vaginal lubrication and showed me a pair of her knickers with a healthy looking bit of discharge. When she saw the endocrinologist this week she asked if the vaginal secretions meant oestrogen and was told 'Certainly'. So when my wife sees her oncologist she'll tell him and we're fully expecting he'll agree and put her back on tamoxifen or arimidex to suppress her oestrogen. That will plunge her back into menopause and fuck up what little we'd managed to rescue of our sex life.
The above long story is by way of explaining that there's a hell of a lot more to breast cancer than whether or not to have a reconstruction. We're often told, by friends, family, and medical staff, that my wife would have snuffed it ages ago if it hadn't been for my support. I find that flattering and I grab it with both hands as it's a fairly lonely place (being a carer) and I need anything I can get in the way of support. But it's always felt like the easiest option for me. I love my wife and want her to know I'm in this with her for the long haul. If she does have to go on hormone suppression again, I'm going to ask our doctor if I can too as I'd prefer for us to have similar amounts of sex drive. I really don't like being horny all the time when she isn't. I hope that doesn't sound too much like heresy - LPSG being dedicated to all things potent and rampant ;o)
The cancer has given our sex life one hell of a pounding. From the outset my wife had to take tamoxifen to starve the cancer of oestrogen. As you can imagine, that plunged her into a second menopause, further reducing libido and leaving her vagina fragile and lacking lubrication. So it affected her body image by taking her breasts (one at a time), it reduced her desire, and made sex uncomfortable for her. It was also difficult for me because, to be honest, I'd always been a bit of a tit fetishist and one tit doesn't quite do it. No tits is even more difficult. On top of that, without her hormones working she didn't give off the phermones that help to turn me on. All in all it's no surprise that sex became less and less frequent. And I'm talking about the good times between bouts of treatments, during which, of course sex was out of the question. So instead of fucking, I'd give her a back and/or foot massage. She'd give me a massage or a hand job. Not the sex life we'd once enjoyed, but better than no contact, and my frustration was being at least slightly alleviated.
Since the brain tumors she hasn't been taking any hormone suppressing drugs (oncologist said they weren't working anyway), and more recently I noticed that my wife's skin tone has improved. We've felt like having sex recently and have had about 3 or 4 pretty good fucks this year. Sadly, she can't come. Not even when she tries to masturbate. She hasn't been able to since before the brain tumors and all the steroids etc. So it's been looking like our sex life might not be over after all. Except... She has her blood checked every three weeks when she goes to hospital for her herceptin treatment, and her tumor markers (abnormal cell count) which had been steady in the normal range have steadily climbed. Not fast, but it's a trend. She's just had full CT scans and the oncologist says there's 'nothing significant' but he'll keep a closer eye on her. It just hit me this week that the rising tumer markers coincide with the improvement in my wife's skin tone and sex drive and maybe her oestrogen is fighting back. Perhaps that's stimulating the cancer. We use lube of course, but my wife says she's even getting a bit of vaginal lubrication and showed me a pair of her knickers with a healthy looking bit of discharge. When she saw the endocrinologist this week she asked if the vaginal secretions meant oestrogen and was told 'Certainly'. So when my wife sees her oncologist she'll tell him and we're fully expecting he'll agree and put her back on tamoxifen or arimidex to suppress her oestrogen. That will plunge her back into menopause and fuck up what little we'd managed to rescue of our sex life.
The above long story is by way of explaining that there's a hell of a lot more to breast cancer than whether or not to have a reconstruction. We're often told, by friends, family, and medical staff, that my wife would have snuffed it ages ago if it hadn't been for my support. I find that flattering and I grab it with both hands as it's a fairly lonely place (being a carer) and I need anything I can get in the way of support. But it's always felt like the easiest option for me. I love my wife and want her to know I'm in this with her for the long haul. If she does have to go on hormone suppression again, I'm going to ask our doctor if I can too as I'd prefer for us to have similar amounts of sex drive. I really don't like being horny all the time when she isn't. I hope that doesn't sound too much like heresy - LPSG being dedicated to all things potent and rampant ;o)
HiddenLacey
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You know, I thought I had met some wonderful men on this site. You might just be the best. Goodluck to you and your wife.
Riven650
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Aw, shucks :redface: You're not so bad yourself submissivegirl83. I hesitated to voice my thoughts about wanting to go on hormone suppression as I know most guys (and particularly the young macho types) just wouldn't understand. But I've had a fab sex life, and the best was definitely with my wife. We both adore my rampant cock but it's no good if it just reminds us of what we cant have. Life moves forward and you have to be prepared to deal with the changes. We both like the idea of my sex drive being reduced to match hers. This isn't a completely unusual situation. There are lots of couples with this problem.
HiddenLacey
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No seriously, you made me cry. Your a good man. If I could help I would, but I know nothing that anyone could say or do would help either of you. Just, goodluck!
Thanks for sharing that, Riven. I hope whatever treatment(s) your wife takes continue to keep her going and give you both a quality of life that's beyond acceptable into enjoyable. It's such a shame your sex life has been dealt such cruel blows by this. I understand completely your desire to match your wife's libido loss. Far from thinking you odd or unmale for that I think it may be just about the most manly thing I've read on this forum.
I was particularly interested to read your take on the bra prosthesis and the fact that every time she undressed it was a little like her losing the breast all over again. At least that's what I'm inferring from your description.
It makes me wonder if my above stated choice would be more difficult for my other half than I had considered. Because while I wouldn't necessarily want a surgical reconstruction I'm not sure I could go day to day without a prosthesis - It's not just a matter of being stared at or reacted to strangely but also of clothes being very difficult to fit (in the case of the loss of one breast.
I do remember one woman I was acquainted with having one breast off and opting for no prosthesis, no reconstruction (I'm not even sure if reconstruction was routinely offered in Ireland in the 80s, probably not). She was a small breasted woman to start with and she dressed in such a way that 90% of the time it wasn't really that obvious there was an imbalance.
Back, sort of, to what Riven was saying; one of the reasons I said above that I didn't think I'd go for reconstruction was the thought of possible recurrence of the cancer and further need for treatment. There has been some breast cancer in my family so I have reflected quite a lot on what choices I would make should it come knocking on my door. The conclusion I had reached is that I would want to wait for a good long time after a mastectomy to ensure that the job had been done. Breast tissue extends well beyond what we think of as the actual breast and even in many radical mastectomies 100% of breast tissue is not removed. I have always thought that while waiting to be as sure as one can be that the cancer had been eradicated I would get used to being single breasted.
Of course all my thoughts on this may change should it ever happen. It is very easy to muse on one's own hypothetical reactions, it's another thing entirely to have the experience and actually react to it. For example, I had a close call with death a good few years back - before then I always assumed I'd be scared and panicked should that happen, but when it did I found I was totally zen about it. The doctors were doing what they could and it would either work or it wouldn't, was my attitude.
That, however, was an immediate life / death thing, only a week passed before I knew I was safe. More recently I had a little run in with cancer - well 'pre-cancer' is what they called it but I preferred to look the demon in the face. The possibility that presented of a slow journey through illness and treatment, as Riven describes above, was, to me, regardless of outcome, more frightening that the prospect of a quick death. I don't suppose I'm alone in that at all.
Thanks again, Riven, for sharing.
I was particularly interested to read your take on the bra prosthesis and the fact that every time she undressed it was a little like her losing the breast all over again. At least that's what I'm inferring from your description.
It makes me wonder if my above stated choice would be more difficult for my other half than I had considered. Because while I wouldn't necessarily want a surgical reconstruction I'm not sure I could go day to day without a prosthesis - It's not just a matter of being stared at or reacted to strangely but also of clothes being very difficult to fit (in the case of the loss of one breast.
I do remember one woman I was acquainted with having one breast off and opting for no prosthesis, no reconstruction (I'm not even sure if reconstruction was routinely offered in Ireland in the 80s, probably not). She was a small breasted woman to start with and she dressed in such a way that 90% of the time it wasn't really that obvious there was an imbalance.
Back, sort of, to what Riven was saying; one of the reasons I said above that I didn't think I'd go for reconstruction was the thought of possible recurrence of the cancer and further need for treatment. There has been some breast cancer in my family so I have reflected quite a lot on what choices I would make should it come knocking on my door. The conclusion I had reached is that I would want to wait for a good long time after a mastectomy to ensure that the job had been done. Breast tissue extends well beyond what we think of as the actual breast and even in many radical mastectomies 100% of breast tissue is not removed. I have always thought that while waiting to be as sure as one can be that the cancer had been eradicated I would get used to being single breasted.
Of course all my thoughts on this may change should it ever happen. It is very easy to muse on one's own hypothetical reactions, it's another thing entirely to have the experience and actually react to it. For example, I had a close call with death a good few years back - before then I always assumed I'd be scared and panicked should that happen, but when it did I found I was totally zen about it. The doctors were doing what they could and it would either work or it wouldn't, was my attitude.
That, however, was an immediate life / death thing, only a week passed before I knew I was safe. More recently I had a little run in with cancer - well 'pre-cancer' is what they called it but I preferred to look the demon in the face. The possibility that presented of a slow journey through illness and treatment, as Riven describes above, was, to me, regardless of outcome, more frightening that the prospect of a quick death. I don't suppose I'm alone in that at all.
Thanks again, Riven, for sharing.
Me too. Contemplating a lengthy illness, especially with no certain resolution makes me sick to my stomach.
gretchenweiner
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Being in my 20's I'd have to say yes I'd get the reconstruction. But if I was 15 years older I'd pass.
Interesting. Would you care to elaborate on why you think being 40ish would make a difference?
The Boudica Tour
The Boudica Within by Elaine Sassoon - The extraordinary story of Women after breast cancer and reconstruction
i've seen the exhibition and the book years ago.
riven's experience reminded me of it.
The Boudica Within by Elaine Sassoon - The extraordinary story of Women after breast cancer and reconstruction
i've seen the exhibition and the book years ago.
riven's experience reminded me of it.
B_subgirrl
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Riven, just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you. I can't imagine how difficult it all must have been for you and your wife. I'm sure your support has meant the world to her.
Reconstruction all the way. Clothing is to much fun, and my husband (and I) love them so.
Riven650
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Many thanks to all who came back to make supportive comments. I was worried that I might be going off topic and making a post that was too much about me. You have no idea how much I needed to say all that (I certainly didn't) and it means the world to me that you guys/girls are here for me. I showed this thread to my wife this morning and she wants to say some stuff too. So MrsRiven has just registered as a new member and wants to speak for herself.
I have read over all your posts, and would like to thank everyone for the support you have shown to my husband, Riven650. It's not easy to talk about all of this stuff with friends & family.
Mostly I wanted to say that deciding whether or not to have reconstruction can be very complicated. When breast cancer was first diagnosed in 2003, the option of having a mastectomy was discussed but, due to the position of the cancer and the fact that I large breasts, the surgeon felt that a lumpectomy would provide the clearances they needed and would be less invasive. I was offered the option of having the lumpectomy pretty much immediately, or waiting a couple of weeks and having a reconstruction at the same time. I wanted to move quickly, so opted for the lumpectomy with the option of having reconstruction later. As it happened, the cancer turned out to be a fast growing cluster (14 lymph nodes were also removed from my armpit, 5 of which had cancer). The surgery didn't provide the clearances they needed, so I was very relieved that I had chosen the fast-track, and had a full mastectomy a couple of weeks later. Then the wound became infected (no particular reason, just one of those things), and had to be re-opened and allowed to heal from the bottom up, which took a month or so. When it finally healed I had 18 weeks of chemo and then radiation to make sure. While this was happening I wasn't wearing any sort of prosthesis as it would have hindered healing and, after all the problems, I was adamant that I did not want reconstruction. The method being offered took an area of skin from the shoulder blade area and moved it with it's blood supply to cover the new breast implant. Nine months after the initial diagnosis I was back at work and wearing a silicone prosthesis, which looked good in clothes but was hot and sticky, and caused Riven650 the problems which he discussed in his post above.
Towards the end of 2005 the cancer seemed to have gone away and I discovered that an outstanding breast reconstruction surgeon, who is mentioned in a couple of previous posts, was working at a local hospital. Her method used tissue from the belly instead of the back, which means having a tummy-tuck instead of having a large scar on your back. I went to see her and she was happy to do the surgery, but she pointed out that I would need to have the other breast reduced in size to make a matching pair. That would mean that some of the left nipple could be used to make a new right nipple, although it was unlikely that either nipple would have any sensation. I was put on the waiting list for surgery in 2006.
But in May 2006 I developed inflammatory breast cancer, first below my breast area and then rapidly spreading over my chest and back. I had chemo (which resulted in septicemia) but worked brilliantly on the IBC, and then had a second mastectomy with the removal of 22 lymph nodes. Everything settled down again, I returned to work flat chested and a year or so later I went back to the reconstruction surgeon, and she agreed to do a double reconstruction. However, when I discussed this with my oncologist he pointed out that surgery in the area could stimulate the IBC back to life, so I decided not to do it. By this time I had got used to having no breasts, I wasn't wearing prostheses, and I was aware of the high likelihood of the cancer returning.
So it was no big surprise to be rushed into hospital with 3 inoperable brain metasteses in February 2008, which were treated with large doses of steroids and whole brain radiation, which actually worked. I was let out of hospital on gradually reducing steroids. When asked, my oncologist confirmed that my cancer was now terminal. The IBC came back a few months later, but more chemotherapy sorted that out, and I've been remarkably fit and healthy over the past 2 years.
So how do I feel about breasts and reconstruction? It would be nice to have a pair of breasts instead of lumpy scars from armpit to armpit, but in my case it wasn't really an option, and my scars are itchy enough that I have never felt inclined to go back to prostheses - although I am occasionally tempted to put them on for new friends who didn't know me when I was the proud possessor of a particularly fine pair of breasts. However, I am very aware that it is much easier for me to cope with being so effectively de-sexualised when I have such a supportive husband. Reading breast cancer web sites, it is obvious that many marriages/relationships fall apart under the strain of coping not just with the disease, but with the damage that it does to a woman's sexuality and self image, and the problems this can cause their partners. Only by talking about everything, including all the bad, difficult and unacceptable stuff can a couple support each other, and I've been very lucky to have Riven650 encouraging me every step of the way.
Mostly I wanted to say that deciding whether or not to have reconstruction can be very complicated. When breast cancer was first diagnosed in 2003, the option of having a mastectomy was discussed but, due to the position of the cancer and the fact that I large breasts, the surgeon felt that a lumpectomy would provide the clearances they needed and would be less invasive. I was offered the option of having the lumpectomy pretty much immediately, or waiting a couple of weeks and having a reconstruction at the same time. I wanted to move quickly, so opted for the lumpectomy with the option of having reconstruction later. As it happened, the cancer turned out to be a fast growing cluster (14 lymph nodes were also removed from my armpit, 5 of which had cancer). The surgery didn't provide the clearances they needed, so I was very relieved that I had chosen the fast-track, and had a full mastectomy a couple of weeks later. Then the wound became infected (no particular reason, just one of those things), and had to be re-opened and allowed to heal from the bottom up, which took a month or so. When it finally healed I had 18 weeks of chemo and then radiation to make sure. While this was happening I wasn't wearing any sort of prosthesis as it would have hindered healing and, after all the problems, I was adamant that I did not want reconstruction. The method being offered took an area of skin from the shoulder blade area and moved it with it's blood supply to cover the new breast implant. Nine months after the initial diagnosis I was back at work and wearing a silicone prosthesis, which looked good in clothes but was hot and sticky, and caused Riven650 the problems which he discussed in his post above.
Towards the end of 2005 the cancer seemed to have gone away and I discovered that an outstanding breast reconstruction surgeon, who is mentioned in a couple of previous posts, was working at a local hospital. Her method used tissue from the belly instead of the back, which means having a tummy-tuck instead of having a large scar on your back. I went to see her and she was happy to do the surgery, but she pointed out that I would need to have the other breast reduced in size to make a matching pair. That would mean that some of the left nipple could be used to make a new right nipple, although it was unlikely that either nipple would have any sensation. I was put on the waiting list for surgery in 2006.
But in May 2006 I developed inflammatory breast cancer, first below my breast area and then rapidly spreading over my chest and back. I had chemo (which resulted in septicemia) but worked brilliantly on the IBC, and then had a second mastectomy with the removal of 22 lymph nodes. Everything settled down again, I returned to work flat chested and a year or so later I went back to the reconstruction surgeon, and she agreed to do a double reconstruction. However, when I discussed this with my oncologist he pointed out that surgery in the area could stimulate the IBC back to life, so I decided not to do it. By this time I had got used to having no breasts, I wasn't wearing prostheses, and I was aware of the high likelihood of the cancer returning.
So it was no big surprise to be rushed into hospital with 3 inoperable brain metasteses in February 2008, which were treated with large doses of steroids and whole brain radiation, which actually worked. I was let out of hospital on gradually reducing steroids. When asked, my oncologist confirmed that my cancer was now terminal. The IBC came back a few months later, but more chemotherapy sorted that out, and I've been remarkably fit and healthy over the past 2 years.
So how do I feel about breasts and reconstruction? It would be nice to have a pair of breasts instead of lumpy scars from armpit to armpit, but in my case it wasn't really an option, and my scars are itchy enough that I have never felt inclined to go back to prostheses - although I am occasionally tempted to put them on for new friends who didn't know me when I was the proud possessor of a particularly fine pair of breasts. However, I am very aware that it is much easier for me to cope with being so effectively de-sexualised when I have such a supportive husband. Reading breast cancer web sites, it is obvious that many marriages/relationships fall apart under the strain of coping not just with the disease, but with the damage that it does to a woman's sexuality and self image, and the problems this can cause their partners. Only by talking about everything, including all the bad, difficult and unacceptable stuff can a couple support each other, and I've been very lucky to have Riven650 encouraging me every step of the way.
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Riven and Mrs Riven,
Your posts make me want to cry; from pain and sadness, but also because of the amazing strength you've both shown and the support and love you have for each other.
I do hope things improve for you. As I said earlier, my thoughts are with you.
Your posts make me want to cry; from pain and sadness, but also because of the amazing strength you've both shown and the support and love you have for each other.
I do hope things improve for you. As I said earlier, my thoughts are with you.
HiddenLacey
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Thank you for registering MrsRiven and sharing your story with us. You are a very brave woman not only to have coped with something so difficult, but to come forward and tell your personal experience. Reading your story definitely puts post surgery reconstruction on the back burner in my mind. Your contribution has made this thread worth reading over and over again.
I am not very good with words so I will simply say that the two of you are very lucky to have each other to lean on. I wish you the best of luck for the future and may you continue to grow stronger.
I am not very good with words so I will simply say that the two of you are very lucky to have each other to lean on. I wish you the best of luck for the future and may you continue to grow stronger.
