Agnostics' view of religious believers

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by dongalong, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. dongalong

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    After becoming aware of how religions operate by doing a lot of research, I have become an agnostic
    and now I find myself thinking that religious people are gullible or stupid to believe stuff that is closer to fairy tales than reality. Of course such thoughts remain in my head (and an internet forum) so I usually humour people with strong beliefs who tell me that the lord controls all and try to change the subject as quickly as possible.

    How do other agnostics behave when being preached to? Do you have similar thoughts to me but maybe react differently?

    If you have faith in God, Allah, Buddah etc. what is your view of agnostics and atheists?
     
    #1 dongalong, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  2. D_Sylvester Poleclimber

    D_Sylvester Poleclimber Account Disabled

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    As a Christian, I believe we're all people :)
     
  3. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Well, having faith in Buddha is not like having faith in God or Allah.
    Buddhists do not consider the Buddha divine.
    He was a human, plain and simple.
    They may revere him as a particularly wise and insightful human ... but that's not what you're talking about.
    And if they do revere him (though 'respect' might be a better word), it's because, hopefully, they've found through investigation that his teachings are true.
    These are teachings about the nature of awareness and reality.
    They are testable, through one's own observations.
    So in this sense, Buddhism is almost a part of natural science.
    I'm exaggerating there a little, but not altogether.
    There are exceptions. Some people who call themselves Buddhists do have something like a religious faith, usually because their Buddhism has become mixed with other belief systems in a process you probably know is called syncretism.
    But this is true only for a small minority of Buddhists, as far as I'm aware.
    [Edit: Hmmm. Having second thoughts about this. More Buddhists than I was first acknowledging do have a kind of quasi religious faith, which is becoming more and more dormant, as far as I'm aware. But the Buddhists sects to which they nominally belong do have belief in beings to which they pray, e.g., the Amidists, in Japan.
    But Buddhists, like many Christians in the West, are losing much of their faith in anything that can be called supernatural. For example, in Japan, few now believe in rebirth ... or so I've read, though maybe other posters have information on this point.]

     
    #3 D_Gunther Snotpole, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  4. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    I wonder where you're from. I'm a Canuck, and we're not very religious--except for the Albertans. I can easily proclaim my Atheism in public without much of a stink.

    I wonder how old you are. I went through the same process at 16. I was extremely dissatisfied with my religion and tried a few others, from Eckankar to Jainism. I soon scrapped them and any residuum of religion and finally felt pure and whole. Eventually I gave up in my belief in God altogether.

    I also wonder if you were Christian, and if you plan on "coming out" to your friends or family. I found that "not religious" is a nice euphemism for "agnostic".
     
  5. dongalong

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    You are right Rubi, Buddha should have been excluded from my OP, of all the religions, buddhists are the most tolerant and never force their beliefs on other people.
     
  6. Calboner

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    Different people mean different things by the word "agnostic." The article that you cite puts forward a historically correct definition of "agnosticism": "the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual beings, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove and hence unknowable." But this is not how the term is popularly understood, nor is it the view that you express in your post. According to the definition, there is no conflict between agnosticism and belief in God: the agnostic simply claims no knowledge, or denies the possibility of knowledge, regarding God's existence of non-existence. But you say that "religious people are gullible or stupid to believe stuff that is closer to fairy tales than reality." You seem to hold not only that it is foolish to believe in God (which could be a purely epistemological point about the lack of rational basis for such belief) but that such belief is remote from reality, i.e., false. If that is your view then, even if you want to describe yourself as an agnostic (according to the Wikipedia definition), you ought also to say that you are an atheist.

    Spelling lesson: a-the-ist, not a-thi-est (which looks like a superlative adjective, like "truthiest").
     
  7. dongalong

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    I only used "agnostic" since I don't consider myself to be an atheist, until I discover the meaning of life, I remain sceptical about God's existence and not 100% sure that there is no God.
    (By the way thanks for the lesson Mr. Spellcheck :wink:)

    The point of my post is that religious people believe things that can only exist in their imagination, it goes beyond belief in God. They reject reality, lose self responsibilty and sometimes allow themselves to be manipulated by religious leaders who don't always have selfless agendas. This is why I have started to doubt their intelligence.
     
  8. cdarro

    cdarro New Member

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    WTF?! I live in Alberta, and except for the odd cultlike congregation scattered here and there, we are no more religious than anywhere else in Canada. Don't make such sweeping generalizations.
     
  9. Calboner

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    According to Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, Alberta is the only part of Canada that doesn't suck -- but Calgary does.
     
  10. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    I hope that you are wearing your magic underwear when you visit LPSG. You wouldn't want the evil porn demons to invade your body.... but then I'm generalizing.

    :rofl: I love it.
     
  11. cdarro

    cdarro New Member

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    Sorry, not a Mormon....but there are a fair number of them, at least in the southwest part of the province. Also hutterites, born agains, etc.

    And I agree....Calgary does suck.
     
  12. Domisoldo

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    Agnostic? Atheist? Isn't it high time we refined the language to allow for nuance?

    After all, in the Christianity market sphere alone, there are countless brands and sub-brands, making widely disparate claims about such key values as the road to salvation.

    Here are a few examples of agnostic or atheist scenarios, which IMO warrant different labels:

    - I believe that there is a 50% chance that some kind of deity created the universe, but I need for its existence to be demonstrated.
    - I know that there is no God, no supernatural entity whatsoever.
    - I believe in the possible, while extremely improbable, existence of a supernatural entity transcending our universe. However, it is not in any way the God described in the Abrahamic religions.

    There could be any number of variations.






     
  13. Calboner

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    Is there room for belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster in your scheme?
     
  14. B_quietguy

    B_quietguy New Member

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    I think there are almost as many agnostics' views of religious people as there are agnostics. I mean, there are many different kinds of agnostics around, and each one can different opinions. You've got the atheistic agnostics, the Christian agnostics, the plain agnostics, Pagan agnostics, don't-give-a-damn agnostics, Jewish agnostics, and so many other flavors. I don't see agnosticism as a separate philosophical/religious tradition but as a cross-cutting view that can be part of many different traditions.

    Some agnostics (e.g. - atheist agnostics and other non-religious agnostics) may see religious people as ignorant, delusional, or misguided. Agnostics within Christian, Pagan, Jewish, or other religious traditions may see religious people as "like themselves but having more faith".
     
  15. Domisoldo

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    It is not so much a scheme as a proposal to update the language to more fully capture the complexity of the idea of a post-superstitious belief system.

    As for the FSM (bless His fiber!), I don't believe the parody lives up to the screaming lunacies of the original.
     
  16. zombyalive

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    until you discover the meaning of life? quite ambitious eh? you know, it might be a big secret, but there is no universal "meaning" in life. you just live, and whatever you do, that's it.

    in what way does it go beyond belief in God?

    there is no such thing as a "selfless agenda."
     
  17. hud01

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    You have to understand that the bible was not meant to be taken literally. God created everything in 6 days. There is nothing to define how long a day was. It could have been a million years.

    They were meant to be guides on how life should be led.
     
  18. Domisoldo

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    Utter bullshit!

    You must be what Taliban-West refers to as a "compromised Christian".

    Evangelical Christians (who thought they were running the US under Li'l Bush) are crystal clear on the subject: The Bible is the word of God. No loose interpretations. No compromises.
    Period.

    If 1 day can be construed as 1 million years, then stoning can be construed as getting high...:rolleyes:


     
  19. hud01

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    LOL that is why they don't have a clue. The good bibllical scholars don't believe it. They are lemmings.

    Oh yeah maybe I am up for a good stoning.:240:
     
    #19 hud01, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  20. Domisoldo

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    You are kinda working on the Sabbath...kinda.
     
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