AIG sends billions in bailout funds abroad

Discussion in 'Politics' started by houtx48, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. houtx48

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    anybody care to explain to me wtf is going on with this. do what ever you feel like and then apologize like hell?
     
  2. Flashy

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    you do realize that if those banks collapsed much of the european banking system would go with it?

    our bailout of AIG not only is for our banking system, but has essentially been done after European Banks and governments began pleading with us last fall not to let AIG fail because it would cause the collapse of numerous large European banks who were the counterparties to AIG in insurance and derivatives trading.

    many european banks were leveraged to an even higher level then american banks.
     
  3. bgck4utoc

    bgck4utoc New Member

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    right now its not just our markets that are fragile. I think that if you wanna be pissed about some of the money that AIG has spent unwarranted, you should be pissed about the end of the year partys that were still held in January......but I believe that all of the partys involved got their pee-pee's whacked in January for that issue......
     
  4. houtx48

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    many European banks were leveraged to an even higher level then American banks.........the United States is not the only government in the world is it?
     
  5. Flashy

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    no it is not. But AIG is an american company and AIG owes those banks.

    other governments have been bailing out their banks and firms too.
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    I am not defending AIG in any way. However, that trip was an incentive trip that was planned over 2 years ago. Salesmen that hit certain numbers qualified for the trip and it was set up, paid for and scheduled before the shit hit the fan. This wasn't something where they just decided to have a party.
     
  7. uncutblond34

    uncutblond34 Member

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    Personally, I think that as part of the bailout, contracts, bonuses and party plans should have been renegotiated before they recieved any of it. I think everyone believed that this was being done, and so nobody gave it a second thought... apparently "common sense is no so common..."
     
  8. houtx48

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    This wasn't something where they just decided to have a party.............. considering what the company was facing financially these things could be canceled, be like you lost your job but you go ask your grandmother for money to take a trip to europe.
     
  9. bigmec2001

    bigmec2001 Member

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    Coming back to the original question - fact is that AIG is an insurance company
    having received billions in premiums to cover credit risks from clients (banks)
    all over the world. Now the "risk" materialises big time and the insurance cover is due. No way to keep anyone away from these claims payments, it`s all contractual ....
     
  10. Flashy

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    yes, that is true, but they were also trading derivatives through their financial services group, which is where even more of the problem lies, since those derivatives were bought as a hedge, another way of their counterparties to "insure" themselves.
     
  11. houtx48

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    screw insurance companies and then screw drug companies.... we're so big we can't afford to fail, what a bunch of horse shit.
     
  12. Flashy

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    AIG's failure is not "horseshit"

    it would have a devastating impact on the american and world economy. AIG has 70 million insurance policies written that its clients depend on in addition to its financial responsibilities from their finance arm.

    AIG is involved in virtually every insurance policy issued over most of the earth, in one way or another.

    there is a difference between reality and hyperbole.
     
  13. lucky8

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    Burn them to the ground!
     
  14. houtx48

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    a letter to Geithner dated Saturday, Liddy said outside lawyers had informed the company that AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so..................screw the sue'rs you can't get what is not there.
     
  15. lucky8

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    This IS utter bullshit. AIG can change their derivative and insurance contracts ie: not making payments to their credit default swap holders, yet they can't change their contracts for bonuses...people need to wake the fuck up and understand we're being duped. AIG isn't going to be repaying ANY of this bailout money, ever. Instead of making them bigger, we need to BURN THEM TO THE GROUND! I could go for a Guy Fawkes moment right about now
     
  16. lucky8

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    Can we not get a petition going to strip these employees of their bonuses? I mean, WE are the owners of the company, so don't we have have some say in the matter?
     
  17. Flashy

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    have you actually read the terms of the bailout?

    1. you do realize that the government virtually owns AIG at the moment, it owns a massive amount around 80%, it also has rights to high yielding interest payments not to mention, the government has the right to strike down dividends and payments to common and preferred shareholders

    . AIG will attempt to pay back certain portions by selling off pieces of its business or the government will control those assets as collateral. All of AIG has a company is solid and profitable. The problam was in the derivatives arm based in London. Everything else is utterly solid. It was the largest insurance company in the world prior to all this and the 18th most valuable company in the *ENTIRE* world in 2008. The problem is the toxic assets, not the company itself.

    2. No, AIG cannot simply "change" their derivative and insurance contracts. They agreed to binding legal agreements to be the counterparty for derivative trades and writing insurance policies.

    you cannot just change whatever you'd like when you legally owe people money.

    3. Burn them to the ground? Blow them up? are you insane? Do you know how many employees AIG has who are totally innocent and had nothing to do with derivatives trading? Who committed their lives to the firm? 116,000 people work for AIG, who have done *NOTHING* wrong.

    4. burn them to the ground and you burn the world with them. AIG is the underwriter for over 1 *MILLION* life insurance policies through australian corporate and state pension plans

    there another 2 million plus policies written in Hong Kong

    they own nearly 20% of China's largest casualty insurer

    i am not even going to go further into their insurance holdings, or their aircraft leasing businesses, telecommunications, real estate

    5. Before you "burn them to the ground" all these loans are going to bail out the individual american *STATES* that are counterparties to AIG derivatives and insurance...should we just let the states burn too?

    The bailout has paid out 12.1 billion alone to US States like

    California 1.2 billion
    Virginia 1.01 billion
    Hawai 770 million
    Oho 490 million
    Georgia 410 million

    and 15 more states ranging from as much as 360 million to 100 million

    You are being completely silly and infantile
     
    #17 Flashy, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  18. lucky8

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    No, I'm saying AIG has already adjusted their dervitives and credit default swap contracts by defaulting on the payments that were agreed upon in the contracts themselves. Since they've defaulted on these payments, they've essentially adjusted the contracts. Why can't they do the same with their employee bonus contracts? Change the terms but call it a default on payment.

    Silly and infantile my ass. Yes, AIG is a solid company outside of its financial wing, but the junk instruments they hold in their financial business aren't going to be worth shit for a solid decade. We're going to be pouring more and more money into AIG until the payments they've been defaulting on are all paid out, and that is going to take ages. We're just throwing money away AGAIN on the prospects that home prices will rebound to the levels they were in '07 and keep on rising, which in turn would bring back the value of AIG's financial "assets". It's the same freaking game being played that got us hear in the first place. It's bullshit Flashy. The government needs to step up and tear the company apart, sell off different sectors and break the company up. They're obviously too big for the good of our nation, and the world. Rockefeller seemed to turn out fine...

    ...and of course, we'd set the buildings on fire when only the janatorial staff was inside, we gotta save those irreplacable execs...
     
  19. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Ya know, I was thinking about their other lines of business. From what I understand, they've about completely exited the re-insurance business. And out of curiousity, I wonder how badly their prospects for writing future lines of business will be impacted by their public image.

    I've had a lot of bottom-feeders that have been scooping up C, GE, USB and a handful of others. Yet to date not a single inquiry or interest in AIG.

    I'm thinking...if i'm an insurance broker, and I'm out there writing new business...any line...am I going to be pulling out an AIG application and putting that in front of somebody?

    Dunno...food for thought.
     
    #19 B_starinvestor, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  20. dong20

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    I'm thinking that AIG (and a few 'household names') may be the Exxon Valdez' of 'big business', for a while at least.

    I agree with Lucky - only in the sense that a generous helping of humility wouldn't go amiss on the top floor of such corporate leviathans. Sadly, if history is much of a guide - I doubt the bulk of the pain will reach that high, at least it seldom seems to.

    On the bright side, it's nice to see that Madoff may get [some of] what's coming to him. :cool:
     
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