Allow Parents To Excuse Students From Pe Showers?
- Thread starter Janet
- Start date
Here, that being Denmark, some schools have had to install shower curtains in the baths since some muslims object to showering in front of their classmates, I think it's a stupid practice since it just underlines the fact that they are different, special treatment for anyone, positive or not, is still discrimination. The reason the showers were introduced after PE was for hygiene, which basically is a medical reason, therefore only a medical reason shall overrule it, it's only logical, religious beliefs are irrelevant, if people have problems with that they can just move to a country that care more about religion than the welfare and wellbeing of it's citizens.
Alley Blue
Sexy Member
*I could not agree with you more Knight!*
There's already a 400 page thread raging on about this very topic. Why has this become such a topic of fascination?
did you think that maybe she has a kid in school? and what the hell is "weird" about enforcing basic standards of hygiene??Originally posted by Knight@Aug 29 2005, 12:35 PM
Also why is a supposed female ('Janet'so concerned about what goes on in a male changing room?
[post=338900]Quoted post[/post]
Alley Blue
Sexy Member
Alley Blue
Sexy Member
Originally posted by Knight@Aug 29 2005, 12:35 PM
Also why is a supposed female ('Janet'
[post=338900]Quoted post[/post]
I was wondering that too. Maybe she's a mother of 5 who happens to be on a school PAT committee.......
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Much as I think it's frivolous to boil this down to a liberal/conservative issue, I couldn't help but notice the disconnect between your argument and the fact that two of three posters who I know to be conservative have, in fact, opposed mandatory gym showers. (Believe me, given the "bring 'em on" mentality of contemporary American conservatism, I was as surprised as you!
An important aim of education is preparing kids for adult life. In that spirit I don't think it's beneficial to keep them cloistered, and certainly not once they have reached the age where they ought to be showering after gym class. The important hygiene issues aside, letting kids opt out of showers is nothing more than overprotectiveness.
Steve
I mentioned to the head on the P. E. department that there was a discussion in an online forum that I'm on (no, I didn't tell him that it's called The Large Penis Support Group) about whether or not teenagers should be required to shower naked in front of each other. His first reaction was surprise that anyone would find it objectionable. Then he brought up an interesting point: "Two weeks out of the school year I'm required to teach a Health & Hygiene class instead of P. E. What kind of message would be sent if I told the students that hygiene is important, but unnecessary during school hours? I'd rather foster the idea that their bodies are nothing to be ashamed of."
FIRST PAGE OF COMMENTS:
Rikter8
Knight
Dr. Rock
Rikter8
I don't necessarily think that not wanting to take a group shower or even being shy about that area of life necessarily translates into being shy about everything and it being a larger problem. I wish that you could accept that some people have different temperments, different attitudes about modesty and generally different opinions about life and not try to force your particular views and actions on them. It's just sad.
Being shy isn't the problem, I don't think. Being picked on is. And adults shouldn't let that happen no matter WHERE it occurs. There's nothing special about a shower.
Of course, I've responded to this before but here goes again. One: we have this modern invention called air conditioning. People aren't constantly sweating all day (and by the way, it isn't only GUYS that sweat) and they aren't going to stink all day. Also, I don't know about your school, but we dressed out in gym clothes that we brought in so it isn't like people are wearing the same clothes that they worked out in to class all day. In fact, I'd subscribe to the idea that people carrying their sweaty clothes with them to bring home to wash is more of a problem then the actual smell of students in the first place. Also, I don't know about you, but most of the people I knew in HS brought towels to wipe off with after class. Finally, the low to moderate physical activity that goes on nowadays at least isn't typically enough to make people who regularly practice good hygeine "STINK" like that. Heck, ask people on here who are propenents of choice if their high schools are malodorous cesspools. I think not.
I think that is a horrible thing that you did. I don't even understand how you could do something like that considering what you said you went through. If you had done something like that to me, I would make sure you were at least expelled or in jail. And I thought that you were a decent person. I guess I was wrong. The problem wasn't that he didn't shower with the rest of you abusers, it was that he didn't shower at home. Instead of going through proper channels you did something reprehensible.
Knight
You're not the only one. I've commented before it's creepy that the idea of forcing students into nude showers is forefront in so many guys' minds like this. It's like a weird obsession that is sexual in nature but given some sort of innocuous veneer.
Dr. Rock
Trotting out the old, tired "HYGIENE FIRST!" argument is insipid and false. Hell, if we're talking "hygiene" then why not make it mandatory all students brush their teeth after lunch? What about herding them into the showers right before school ends no matter if they've had gym or not (after all, just walking around can make you sweat in certain climates and of course we must make sure that no one has any odor at all to promote !hygiene! At least come up with something that has some basis in science then that ridiculous argument.
Maybe they won't...at school. But then again why is it your duty to make sure they group shower nude at school too?
Hiding from reality may not be healthy, but of course group nude showers doesn't have anything to do with that. I think that some guys on here get off on the idea of high schoolers doing it and they are the ones that need to get a grip on reality (and off their dicks).
FIRST PAGE CONTINUED:
Pecker
Hung'n'horny
BlastOff123
longboarder
Dr. Rock
Rikter
7x5.5
Robertmuro
"I don't know of a single conservative who would be even slightly against forcing teens to undergo nude public showers"
Pecker
Asked and answered in a diferent thread. Try reading before you ask superfluous questions like that. You don't (or shouldn't get a "grade" for showering. It doesn't demonstrate any sort of growth of knowledge other than getting naked and showing that you know how to shower. Stupid.
Hung'n'horny
So what was the result of people not using the showers, but going home to shower? You seem to be saying that it is NOT a hygiene issue (oops...Dr. Rock is going to be pissed), but rather a social issue with your statement:
I think people's issues run a HELL of a lot deeper than group showers in school. Good luck though. I think that people trying to force their beliefs and attitudes (like the religious right and those who want to force naked group showers on teenagers) is the problem.
BlastOff123
Usually the only people who use the term PC in their arguments are those who try to enforce and legislate their opinion on others to make them do what they want because of their own sense of superiority. And of course, your first statement does not seem to reflect what goes on across the country, judging by some of the input from members here.
longboarder
So what is your argument? Social engineering or hygiene? Because both arguments have been pretty much discredited. What is wrong with your school's policy as it exists? You just want those last two kids to shower with you for some odd reason? It's like you can't accept people may have different attitudes than you.
Dr. Rock
Then it seems like you should be advocating that they shower together a hell of a lot more often than just gym. People "sweat" all day long. Make 'em shower every freakin' hour then! That is about as reasonable an argument as the one you're making.
Rikter
Interesting, because you're arguing the very opposite. You don't want people to find their OWN identity, but to conform to yours (as your warped and twisted as your actions indicate).
7x5.5
You, are of course completely correct.
Robertmuro
Again the stupid "PC" statement that pops up without making any sort of meaningful case. I would agree with the last statement though I would change it to:
"I don't know of a single conservative who would be even slightly against forcing teens to undergo nude public showers"
They can do whatever they want to, of course. Doesn't have anything to do with me. I don't own a boarding house. Can you explain this question further, maybe?
Bullshit religious argument that doesn't have any place in the discussion. First of all, that's talking about money / taxes, not one's own body. And what applies to YOUR religion wouldn't necessesarily apply to someone ELSE's religion, moral views or level of comfortableness.
How about this? In Louisiana, since it's sooo hot, how come people are allowed to wear gym clothes at all? It's not for protection. It's not for comfortableness. It would be more "hygienic" if everyone was forced to exercise in just their underwear / jocks and tennis shoes wouldn't it? I'm sure some of you guys would love to see that....so why aren't you advocating for this?
Is it not an issue because all people are forced to take showers or they can all do what they want?
Steve26
I'm not aware of a situation in which an adult is forced to do the whole group nude shower thing. Excluding the military, and that is something which one chooses to join or not.
DMW
So...then as I stated earlier, he'd be in favor of a requirement that not only students be forced to shower, they should be forced to brush their teeth immediately after lunch? How would that "gums check" go, anyway? After all, it's ALL about the freakin' hygiene! And of course no matter whether kids have gym or not, they do sweat in Louisiana, so everyone needs to take a group nude shower before they go home for some reason....
BTW, I don't recall ANYone on here saying that because they don't believe that group nude showers should be forced upon everyone, that they are somehow ashamed of their bodies. Completely false and quite misleading statement.
- jonb,
Axex:
Actually, a lot of tropical societies wear a lot of "penis" clothing, such as penis strings in the Amazon which basically tie the foreskin and then go around the waist. Or penis gourds in some parts of the South Pacific. Beyond that, a lot of accessorizing's done.
FWIW, traditional Lakota clothing, due to the temperature extremes, was actually designed so you could just shuck any extra when it's too hot.
Actually, a lot of tropical societies wear a lot of "penis" clothing, such as penis strings in the Amazon which basically tie the foreskin and then go around the waist. Or penis gourds in some parts of the South Pacific. Beyond that, a lot of accessorizing's done.
FWIW, traditional Lakota clothing, due to the temperature extremes, was actually designed so you could just shuck any extra when it's too hot.
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Warmsunshine -- Did it occur to you as you were making your three very long posts rebutting others in this thread that you appear to be in the extreme minority on this topic? Just some food for thought ... in responding as you did, you inadvertently highlighted the unpopularity of your own arguments.
To respond to the tiny sliver of those posts directed at me: You're right, one can easily navigate adulthood without experiencing "the whole group nude shower thing." However, excessive shyness about nudity can be a grave issue if, for instance, one were to avoid visiting doctors because one was so mortified by the prospect of nudity in front of another person. And people who aren't visiting gyms because they're scared of the showers are precisely the people who ought to be seen regularly by doctors.
Steve :happy:
To respond to the tiny sliver of those posts directed at me: You're right, one can easily navigate adulthood without experiencing "the whole group nude shower thing." However, excessive shyness about nudity can be a grave issue if, for instance, one were to avoid visiting doctors because one was so mortified by the prospect of nudity in front of another person. And people who aren't visiting gyms because they're scared of the showers are precisely the people who ought to be seen regularly by doctors.
Steve :happy:
:shrug: then considering that you haven't been able to present a single reason to counter it, what does that say about YOUR argument? :7
apples and oranges. assuming they're brushing their teeth in the morning and evening, the difference in oral hygiene between 2 and 3 times per day is not significant for most people. besides which, I doubt there are many schools at which students are required by the curriculum to eat lunch
sure - but a school can't take responsibility for that. they can only be responsible for the physical activity that they require their students to perform. similarly, some people sweat a lot more than others - unfortunate for them, but not within anyone else's jurisdiction. it's a simple matter of practicality.
it does when someone offers the excuse "it's embarrassing." sure, we'd all have preferred that our schools had shower cubicles instead, but most schools don't have the room or resources for them because the government would rather spend the money on itself. again, it's practicality.
Steve26
Do you think that the righteousness of an individual's argument has ANYTHING to do with how many people on a message board flock to their side? That is beyond idiotic into the realm of just plain willfully stupid. Why don't you choke on THAT "food for thought". And BTW, I am not in the "extreme minority" on this subject. I am one of the ones who is willing to post more than once on the subject and respond to the arguments of those who disagree with me.
Why is that? Why not respond to the whole of the debate and add something meaningful to it? That's just a cop out and shows your narcissism.
Laughable, at best if you're equating someone not wanting to do the naked group shower dance with either excessive shyness or not wanting to go to the doctor's office. People don't go to the doctor's office because they are afraid the doctor will tell them they have cancer or some other grave illness...not that they'll be nude. Since when did you go to the office and just strip down to nothing for the visit? Did he have some laughing gas for you to take? Maybe it was Dr. Rock....did your ass hurt when you woke up? Where in ANY argument can you make that connection (between doctor visits and nudity)? Try to avoid the "IF" fallacy please.
Jiggawha? Someone who is an adult and able to visit the gym can shower at home if they so desire...unless they run into Rikter8 and the "assault first" crowd.
I have, you just haven't bothered to read my responses.
They are not "apples and oranges". They are apples and apples. At the very least McIntosh and Washington apples. Hygiene is hygiene. If people are showering 1-2 per day, then a low or moderate amount of exercise is not going to make you reek or become a health issue for people. And I doubt there are many schools nowadays where students are required by the curriculum to shower (for good reason).Originally posted by Dr Rock@Aug 30 2005, 03:58 PM
apples and oranges. assuming they're brushing their teeth in the morning and evening, the difference in oral hygiene between 2 and 3 times per day is not significant for most people. besides which, I doubt there are many schools at which students are required by the curriculum to eat lunch
So schools are NOT requiring students to walk around from class to class in order to further their education? If you're going to make arguments, at least make them not so easy to knock down in 2 seconds of common sense thinking. Your arguments haven't had ANYTHING to do with so-called "practicality", they've been about HYGIENE (all bow...). If you are going to make your argument HYGIENE then my argument is the logical conclusion to it. Mandatory brushing and required showers for the entire student body at the end of the day whether or not they've participated in PE.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr Rock@Aug 30 2005, 03:58 PM
it does when someone offers the excuse "it's embarrassing." sure, we'd all have preferred that our schools had shower cubicles instead, but most schools don't have the room or resources for them because the government would rather spend the money on itself. again, it's practicality.
[post=339223]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]If you recall, I didn't make the argument that it (showering) was embarassing. The big deal that you and your clique are making out of forcing others to bend to your Stalinesque will IS embarassing. I don't care if a school has individual stalls or an open-shower system. It should be a choice of the student, not you and your cronies. Period.