Alternative Vote: How will you be voting?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by flame boy, May 4, 2011.

?

How will you vote?

  1. I will vote YES to the alternative vote

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. I will vote NO to the alternative vote

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. I will not vote

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  1. flame boy

    flame boy Account Disabled

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    For those in the UK there is an upcoming referendum on the way we vote and how we elect our MPs. You can read more about it here.

    How will you be voting?
     
  2. Catchoftheday

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    Can't see any reason to change to that, so I am going to be voting No
     
  3. flame boy

    flame boy Account Disabled

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    I'm all for it, I think the change will be of great benefit. I'll be voting yes.
     
  4. alx

    alx
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    Ill be voting YES for sure.
     
  5. helgaleena

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    I'd vote yes if I could.
     
  6. D_Relentless Original

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  7. Jason

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    Very clear no from me.

    If by some catastrophe we get a yes on a low turnout and by a small margin then after the next election there will be MPs elected through AV who would have lost on FPTP - and I think the UK public would see them as without the moral right to sit in parliament. The UK public will see a win under AV as un-British. AV would be worse for the standing of our parliament and democracy than the MPs expenses scandal.
     
  8. Jason

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    It seems there is no exit poll for the AV referendum, and that it will take a long time to count so we have a long wait for the official result. But everyone seems to be assuming a big majority for NO - presumably the yes and no campaigns have done their own exit surveys. The FT calls the result on tomorrow's front page - a big NO.

    Seemingly we are assuming NO is the result and are going into the "what next" stage. Pretty clearly no more referenda on changing the voting system for a very long time. Therefore a key aim of the LibDems has been lost - and perhaps for a generation. This strikes me as seismic. Imagine if UKIP managed to get a referendum on UK membership of the EU and the UK voted not to leave the mess but to become part of the nascent United States of Europe. Suddenly UKIP would be irrelevant. I think something similar has happened for the Lib Dems. The next election will be fought without AV and with the LibDems the lightning conductors for every unpopular decision the Coalition takes. It looks grim for them. Actually their best chance is to go full term and hope the economy has turned the corner by 2015.

    Perversely I think the big winners are the Conservatives. They are going to lose councils, but this is to be expected for a party in government. At national level their hand has been strengthened against the LibDems. In the years to come they can expext some LibDem MPs to defect to Conservative so they can fight the next election as Conservatives.

    Yesterday Hague made a breathtakingly anti-EU speech. Hardly anyone has reported it. Yet his IMO is the new Conservative spirit - less conciliation with LibDems and more appeal to Con and UKIP voters. At this rate we might even get an EU membership referendum!
     
  9. Joll

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    Not bothered enough to vote on this one - altho I'd go for No, if I had to choose.
     
  10. dandelion

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    Funny you should say that. The conservative party uses a version of Av to elect its leader. They do it by successive rounds rather than as one ballot form indicating preferences, but it amounts to much the same thing. And surprise...the first past the post winner was David Cameron, whereas the Av winer was......(drumroll)....David Cameron.

    So why do the conservatives use Av instead of FPTP for their own elections?.....(drumroll).....because they think it is fairer!

    Sometimes it will give a different result......(drumroll)......when more people prefer one candidate than prefer the simple first round winner. That is what Av does, it makes it more likely the candidate preferred by most people gets chosen.

    The truth is that fptp has an automatic bias towards the incumbent or favourite, even if the great majority do not want that person.

    Curiously the conservatives have a very odd voting system. What they do is whittle down the candidates by eliminating them one by one on the votes of conservative Mps until only two are left. Then they ask the party members which of the two they prefer. Labour and Conservatives both have a similar approach to national elections. whittle down the field so that there are only two credible candidates, conservative and labour, and then only allow the people to choose one or other of these. Democracy? not wanted here guv!
     
  11. Drifterwood

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    Democracy a la X Factor.
     
  12. Jason

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    AV is a good system for electing a leader. Yes the Conservatives use it for leadership elections and most (all?) US cities use it to elect a mayor. Given that there's got to be a single leader it does mean that the person with the widest support gets elected.

    AV is an abysmal system for electing a government. If we voted directly for a political party it might sort of work, but through the filter of eleting MPs it creates all sorts of oddities. It tends to make landslides even bigger (leading to an "elected dictatorship") and it tends to increase hung parliaments (leading to more coalitions on an agreement which is the manifesto of neither).

    A choice between FPTP and a more proportional form of election would have been worth discussing. But AV was just dangerous as an idea. The FT has called the AV referendum outcome as a clear NO, and I assume they are right, so I assume the issue is closed for a generation.
     
  13. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    I don't see the point of AV in any election. No party outside the main three gets any airtime for their policies on TV. That's despite UKIP polling 2nd in the 2009 Euro elections. No seats in any debate for them though. AV is purely a method of retaining the hegemony we already have.

    As for other methods, the SNP are having a storming night on FPTP, but they'll be screwed over on Top Up. Haha. A poor turnout again, & a poor system.

    A bad night for the LibDems indeed - AV fails via their Coalition. They were below the BNP in Blaaneau Gwent.

    As for an elected HoL, another poor idea. Why not just cut costs, & apportion legislative peers via a direct proportion of the national vote. We should also cut the number of legislative peers to below 200, & make them full timers, albeit on a finite number of years service.

    And William Hague - whatever happened to getting rid of the Scots, Welsh & Irish from purely English issues?

    Those MPs should be paid far less than their English counterparts, mainly because they don't have anything to do with the domestic issues of their voters, only the national. Them having a voice on English issues is a perversion of democracy.

    Even worse, some like Alex Salmond, were,& are, being paid for both the Scottish, & UK parliament.

    How can they possibly be in two places at once? It's a joke.
     
  14. Jason

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    We're still waiting for the AV result, but everyone is assuming a big NO.

    The Conservatives must be tickled er blue that their vote has held up and even increased a fraction. They control around half of English councils, with about a quarter in no overall control and about a quarter Labour controlled. This is a magnificent result for the Conservatives. And while Labour has increased its position it is still pretty dismal. The big story is the LibDems. How do they come back fom this utter rout? And seemingly we are back to two-party politics.

    There is now no political momentum towards giving concessions to LibDems in Westminster. I suspect we are now looking at more of a Conservative direction on all policies including Europe.
     
  15. Drifterwood

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    Kell sew prees. :rolleyes:
     
  16. dandelion

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    But equally, the lib dems have no real choice except to demand more concessions. Interesting times?
     
  17. Joll

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    Looks like 70/30 against a change to AV?
     
  18. Jason

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    The LibDems have no real choice.

    They can demand all they like - they won't get. Maybe a fig leaf for the smooth running of government, but that's it. They could replace Clegg with an anti-Cameron character as deputy PM. But what does this achieve? The LibDems will be perceived as being obstructive. They are in a political hole and whatever they do now will work against them. Best stop digging - a few months of masterly inactivity would be best.

    The Conservatives are likely to push a more Euro-sceptic agenda (witness Hague's speech earlier this week).
     
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