Am I Gay Or Pansexual?

Joe ash

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I was having a conversation with a friend about sexual identities. I've always identified as a gay man as I'm into men including trans men. According to my friend that means I'm pansexual because I date trans men. But I was under the impression pansexual was similar to bisexuality with an attraction regardless gender but included trans men and women. I wouldn't date anyone who identifies as a woman including trans women because I like men. which is why I identify as gay. My friend says that because I date trans men I can't identify as gay which to me sounds crazy because trans men are men therefore I'm gay. Can someone please help us settle this.
 

sultrysam

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Well, I think a lot of gay men, myself included, will agree that you're not gay if you're into trans men. You're right that you're not pansexual because that would imply it's open season on all genders for you, which isn't the case. I would say you're bisexual with a specific type. Let's not be intellectually dishonest about what trans men biologically are and what parts they have. Sexuality isn't about masculinity, femininity, or who you prefer to romantically date. It's about the sex you are attracted to, period.
 
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englad

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I think your friend is talking out his arse.

I would consider your sexuality to be gay. It makes sense for a gay man to be attracted to cis and trans men, as both offer a fuller masculine package.

The flipside to what the bigoted twat above me posted, is he's suggesting that gay men should be attracted to trans women, because their biological sex is male. Well, nope, a dick amongst a host of feminine body features isn't enough to get a gay man's blood pumping. And the idea that a host of masculine body features without a penis, would be incongruous with being gay, is both absurd and offensive. There's a hell of a lot more that gets me excited about men than just the penis.

The simple truth is, it boils down to whether you consider trans men to be men or not. I do, and clearly you do too, so yes a man being attracted solely to men does equal being gay.
 
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328982

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I think you can identify as gay, bi or straight and be attracted to a trans man (or woman). It depends what's attracting you. Not an open and shut thing imo. As gender identity categories become more fluid so inevitably do sexual categories.
 

sultrysam

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I think your friend is talking out his arse.

I would consider your sexuality to be gay. It makes sense for a gay man to be attracted to cis and trans men, as both offer a fuller masculine package.

The flipside to what the bigoted twat above me posted, is he's suggesting that gay men should be attracted to trans women, because their biological sex is male. Well, nope, a dick amongst a host of feminine body features isn't enough to get a gay man's blood pumping. And the idea that a host of masculine body features without a penis, would be incongruous with being gay, is both absurd and offensive. There's a hell of a lot more that gets me excited about men than just the penis.

The simple truth is, it boils down to whether you consider trans men to be men or not. I do, and clearly you do too, so yes a man being attracted solely to men does equal being gay.

For YOU and that's fine. Are you going to say lesbians who are very masculine in appearance that they're straight because they "offer a fuller masculine package"? Or incredibly effeminate gay men that the men attracted to them are straight because they're so feminine and not masculine? These people are just a pronoun change away from being considered trans, and that changes everything right? :rolleyes: How about female body builders and their straight boyfriends/husbands, you think those men are gay because they love all that testosterone and masculinity right.

And yes, there are actually lots of men who consider themselves gay who are into trans women, some exclusively.
 
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Transgender men are men. Transgender women are women. Gender identities outside of the binary have existed in many places all over the planet for centuries. It isn't new, it isn't a fad.
 
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Sounds good, that's the new orthodoxy but it's not really that simple. Gender used to be defined basically by genitalia, by biology, and that's just been trumped by self-identity. Before: you have a vagina, you're a woman. Now: you identify as a woman, you are a woman. That is a new way of thinking; nobody would have thought that 25 years ago. But both are conservative and deterministic constructs that reinforce the gender binary. The trans journey is about transitioning from one gender to the other - still binary - not encouraging a comfortable space between the two. In fact the in-between, ambiguity, is presented as great suffering, from which you are only released once you cross over and are determined as either man or woman: your 'true' identity. And identity is not just an internalised state, a person's own sense of gender, it is fully socialised. Transition depends on first 'passing' as and to the other gender and then being fully accepted by society as such. Social acceptance is key to transition: the process is not complete until society accepts as fact that the transgender man is a man, the transgender woman is a woman. Still binary.

So what happens when a person transitions and then, as is not uncommon, de-transitions and goes back to their previous gender. They were really a man, then really a woman, and now really man again? Okay.

And if society says that a biologically born male identifying as a woman is in fact a woman, then a man attracted to that person is ergo heterosexual. Even pre-op, with male genitals and hairy chest etc, the attraction is heterosexual, because that person is really a woman, and straight men are attracted to women. So a gay man attracted to that person's male genitals, hairy chest etc. is experiencing heterosexual attraction because that person is, in fact, a woman. Ergo, they must be bisexual, not gay. Okay. So gender and sexual identity do intersect.

See, not so straightforward. I'm not saying it's wrong, just not that simple.
 
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1132655

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"transgender" men/women are not technically men/women. Identifying with or thinking you're something doesn't mean you are, is like some are trying to separate men with human male. What makes a man "a man"? Is it their behavior? Is it a muscular body? A beard? Short hair? Fashion trends? Thought process? Social status? The answer is no. There's only one reason you're identified as a human male and is your genetic coding, it naturally tells you with your reproductive system haha. I know there's intended confusion being spread by some communication mediums and is a shame that the young one's are being fed this crap. We live in a world where some people simply can't accept their natural bodies. We are encouraged to get fake breast, fake ass, cut our faces, putting synthetics into our bodies. All to fit the "beauty standards" mold they sell, They even promoting obesity as beautiful. Is pure madness.
 

MisterB

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"transgender" men/women are not technically men/women. Identifying with or thinking you're something doesn't mean you are, is like some are trying to separate men with human male. What makes a man "a man"? Is it their behavior? Is it a muscular body? A beard? Short hair? Fashion trends? Thought process? Social status? The answer is no. There's only one reason you're identified as a human male and is your genetic coding, it naturally tells you with your reproductive system haha. I know there's intended confusion being spread by some communication mediums and is a shame that the young one's are being fed this crap. We live in a world where some people simply can't accept their natural bodies. We are encouraged to get fake breast, fake ass, cut our faces, putting synthetics into our bodies. All to fit the "beauty standards" mold they sell, They even promoting obesity as beautiful. Is pure madness.

Your post above could not be more WRONG! It tells anyone reading this that technically, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Pure madness!
 

seventiesdemon

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Can someone give me a visual of a Pansexual please. I'm a bit of a lost boy here............................bwaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha...no, truly. Visual, cause I'm a male. Old one at that.
 

BreezSteez

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I honestly like the term queer, for all intents and purposes. I prefer to refer to them as terms rather than labels, because sometimes language is important in the way we choose to describe intimate details about ourselves. Imo, pansexual doesn't have to include each and every possibility, it just denotes that there is a range of possibilities outside of bi or homosexual.
 
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I think once you eliminate all societal preconceptions, orientation has more to do with attraction to the gender someone presents themselves as as opposed to simply whatever genitals they currently have ;)
My bf identifies as straight. He's attracted to women - but that also includes trans women regardless of the fact that they may have a penis.

I'd be totally pansexual if it weren't for the fact that while I love having sex with both men and women, I prefer to be in a relationship with a man.
 

malakos

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Your post above could not be more WRONG! It tells anyone reading this that technically, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Pure madness!

No, it is not idiotic to have a different understanding of gender from you. What precisely gender is is not obvious; it's not even a clearly defined concept at this point, so there is a great deal of interpretation involved in coming to terms with what gender involves, and what its relationship to sex is. Given the level of confusion there is currently concerning gender, it isn't at all fair to claim that someone is an idiot because they have a different view on it from you, or even if you find someone's commentary offensive, which, given the outraged tone of your post, I'm guessing you chose to attack the poster because you were indeed outraged (unduly so, imo).