Am I Getting Hit On? (long-ish Post Warning)

[deleted1547822]

For the last 25 years, my wife enjoys pointing out that I am completely oblivious to women (and sometimes men) flirting with or hitting on me. Her favorite reminder is that (before we started dating) she told me "we'd make beautiful babies" and that I didn't get that 'hint'. Constantly being told "you don't even know she/he was flirting with you, do you?" has caused me to be a little more questioning of people's behavior... but I'll admit that I'm still oblivious to it.

I've been getting waxed for the last year. It was the wife's idea (long story and basically a prank), and she made the appointment which popped up in our shared email and as a text on my phone. She liked the results and made the 4 week followup within a day, adding an online note along the lines of "I love it! and "Great job!".

The waxing lady is cool. She got a kick out of the circumstances of the first couple of visits and my wife's note (which I found out about when she read it to me). We chat about all kinds of stuff. Kids, politics, what car she should get her daughter, managing acreage, etc... Some things that happened yesterday made me curious/suspicious though, and I'd like your opinion. I'm sure my wife will say "yep" and "don't give it a second thought", because she always says people are hitting on me and she knows she has nothing to worry about. I think I'd rather stop going if it's the case though, and I hope it's not.

So here's the "evidence". Sorry if it sounds a little "Dear Penthouse...", but that's exactly why I'm wondering.

During the first couple of visits I was pretty nervous/anxious, which led to some 'extra circulation' down there (but nothing extreme). On the second visit, she made the comment "I bet you get a lot of action..." I think her comment was lighthearted acknowledgement and not making a big deal of the circumstances.

On subsequent visits, she's taken to resting her hand on the inside of my thigh while we chat and she's waiting for the wax to cool. I never thought anything of it. It seems relaxed, natural and not inappropriate.

Yesterday while we were talking about something her husband had bought, she wanted to make clear that he is her second husband and that he has kids and grandkids. I don't know why this was relevant to anything and it seemed out of the blue. A little later she mentioned she had a few hours before her next client.

I was also going to get a men's facial because I know COVID has slowed business and I figured it would be a way to throw her a little extra money. I've never had one before, but I was expecting the lotions and potions and hot towels. I was surprised when she didn't have me put my pants back on before we started, and I wasn't expecting to be asked to take my shirt off and having her rub oil on my chest and arms. There was some massaging on my shoulders, but the chest and arms seemed more just lightly rubbing. That seemed weird to me, and I have no idea what it has to do with cleaning somebody's face; although I suppose it's something to do while waiting for pores to open or whatnot.

Honestly, I don't think anything is going on. I think my wife would laugh at me and say I'm still oblivious - which is why I'm probably overthinking this.

Your thoughts?

 

[Mittimer]

She's being friendly and moderately inappropriate. I don't know if I'd call it flirting. I do know that I wouldn't awknowledge it personally, because getting a "happy ending" at your salon/spa would not only risk her job but both of you legally.

 

[MickeyLee]

Cool story, bro.

 

[MickeyLee]

Also.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

For the last 25 years, my wife enjoys pointing out that I am completely oblivious to women (and sometimes men) flirting with or hitting on me. Her favorite reminder is that (before we started dating) she told me "we'd make beautiful babies" and that I didn't get that 'hint'. Constantly being told "you don't even know she/he was flirting with you, do you?" has caused me to be a little more questioning of people's behavior... but I'll admit that I'm still oblivious to it.

I've been getting waxed for the last year. It was the wife's idea (long story and basically a prank), and she made the appointment which popped up in our shared email and as a text on my phone. She liked the results and made the 4 week followup within a day, adding an online note along the lines of "I love it! and "Great job!".

The waxing lady is cool. She got a kick out of the circumstances of the first couple of visits and my wife's note (which I found out about when she read it to me). We chat about all kinds of stuff. Kids, politics, what car she should get her daughter, managing acreage, etc... Some things that happened yesterday made me curious/suspicious though, and I'd like your opinion. I'm sure my wife will say "yep" and "don't give it a second thought", because she always says people are hitting on me and she knows she has nothing to worry about. I think I'd rather stop going if it's the case though, and I hope it's not.

So here's the "evidence". Sorry if it sounds a little "Dear Penthouse...", but that's exactly why I'm wondering.

During the first couple of visits I was pretty nervous/anxious, which led to some 'extra circulation' down there (but nothing extreme). On the second visit, she made the comment "I bet you get a lot of action..." I think her comment was lighthearted acknowledgement and not making a big deal of the circumstances.

On subsequent visits, she's taken to resting her hand on the inside of my thigh while we chat and she's waiting for the wax to cool. I never thought anything of it. It seems relaxed, natural and not inappropriate.

Yesterday while we were talking about something her husband had bought, she wanted to make clear that he is her second husband and that he has kids and grandkids. I don't know why this was relevant to anything and it seemed out of the blue. A little later she mentioned she had a few hours before her next client.

I was also going to get a men's facial because I know COVID has slowed business and I figured it would be a way to throw her a little extra money. I've never had one before, but I was expecting the lotions and potions and hot towels. I was surprised when she didn't have me put my pants back on before we started, and I wasn't expecting to be asked to take my shirt off and having her rub oil on my chest and arms. There was some massaging on my shoulders, but the chest and arms seemed more just lightly rubbing. That seemed weird to me, and I have no idea what it has to do with cleaning somebody's face; although I suppose it's something to do while waiting for pores to open or whatnot.

Honestly, I don't think anything is going on. I think my wife would laugh at me and say I'm still oblivious - which is why I'm probably overthinking this.

Your thoughts?

Massage therapist here. Who gets eyebrows waxed.
Estheticians live on tips. Especially in upscale places. There’s almost an inverse pay scale.
So being a bit friendly is a requirement. It equals tips and rebookings. Or memberships.

To illustrate the pay scale, I’ve worked at membership chains (thrice, a total of five years, four at one location), chichi spas twice, for about a year, and now on on the medical side where tips aren’t really in play. Some at the chiropractic office.
The better per service rate was actually a Massage Envy in the Bay Area where I earned a whopping $17 per hands on hour and minimum as a sit rate, but it wasn’t sitting, it was cleaning. (I pay all my license, insurance and continuing education costs. In the Bay Area, servers were getting $15)
The worst was $15 at the south Denver metro spa charging north of $200 an hour. Tips at the spa disappeared regularly. Only occasionally at ME.
Estheticians made about the same, as both business models were booking by time. Both paid out the nose for franchise fees.
So, there’s an economic factor in being not only good at their job, but personable too.


The women who have had nethers waxed have more authority, but I’m guessing a hand on the thigh is a nerve confusion meant to ease sting. A similar move is done on the eyebrows.


As for the “massage” on the décolleté and less on the arms, massage is very regulated, by state, in the US. Even if an esthetician has a massage license, it’s out of scope for that service. Private practice might be different, but I’ve never heard of a legitimate esty wanting to add massage to a service, only to the menu of services.
(It gets tangled when sex workers decide to hop the fence to skin care and real massage but keep doing sex work. I’m speaking only of legit, licensed and ethical estheticians and massage therapists.)

it is common for the boards that oversee cosmetologists/estheticians to allow light effleurage to bring blood flow to the area, or a “shoulder massage” that is basically a few squeezes. Anything more and it’s treading on another profession.

Lastly, men sexualize what is common non sexual interactions by women who work with the public.
Women who must be outgoing as part of either an actual job description, or an unstated but understood job description. Or just simple customer service. Rude doesn’t get repeat business. And rude is highly subjective by the recipient of an interaction.

So, don’t be a Brad. Brads think any woman being nice is hitting on them.

 

[deleted1547822]

@Mittimer - Thanks. FWIW, there's no interest in a "happy ending" on my part, and this isn't that kind of place. If she were being suggestive, I wouldn't go back - which is why I'm asking.

@Scarletbegonia - Thanks too. I understand the hand on waxed area to minimize sting, and to me there's nothing sexual about that. She's manipulating my business in order to wax it, and I don't find anything about that sexual either. I'm definitely not trying to be a Brad. I never think a woman is hitting on me, which my wife finds hilarious. I wouldn't give this a second thought normally. I think the extra attention was exactly what you indicate - good customer service to ensure business given the current economic situation. I just couldn't figure out why she made it a point to indicate that her husband was significantly older, or why she let me know she had a couple of hours to spare. It was during the drive home when it crossed my mind and I got to wondering if this was another instance of my obliviousness, and I think my wife gets it wrong a lot of the time too. She's good at what she does, I like her demeanor, and don't want to start looking for someone else.

As an aside, the income comment is interesting. She has her own location, and should be grossing about $100/hr. I tip 20%, because I don't know what's expected and that seems reasonable in terms of general service industry. She was shut down for a month or so, and based on appointment availability she's not as busy as before. I added the facial to the last visit to help out her economic circumstances, and because it had been a couple of months since my last visit due to the shutdowns and whatnot.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

When I’m fully independent and getting all of the fee, I’m charging what I’m worth.
In that case, tips are never expected, always accepted.

True, my payment system has a tip screen, but that’s just the programming.
With cash, I don’t count. I trust they are paying the full amount (and this is 98 percent true), and if there’s extra, well, they had plenty of time to get exact change, could have used my cc system, or asked for change. I do carry a $10 and $5 with me for that. Folks usually pay in $20s.

Now, the other side, are you feeling uncomfortable? Its pretty easy to talk about your wife a lot (g rated)
It can be difficult to step up and say, I’d rather not continue this line of talk. But it’s your right.

In chit chat, and only if it was illustrative, I’ve mentioned my dude is older. Granted, if someone on the table gets too pushy I can go to trigger point with a very pointy elbow in a sore spot, or end the session.

As far as time, I bring it up if I need a bit more time to address an issue, usually something juuuuust about to relax, and two minutes left. I do this because people have schedules.
I’ve had folks say up front they need to be out the door at a certain point, shorter than the session.
It’s never been about anything aside from the session.

ETA
I’ve done the math for having an office of my own. Sometimes, massage envy is the better paycheck. It’s just such a bad environment.

 

[deleted1547822]

I've never felt uncomfortable and all talk is g-rated other than the one instance noted earlier, which was fine given the circumstances.

When the wax was done and we moved on, my chain of thought was:

"Ooh, good idea (to take my shirt off). I don't want to get lotion and potion on it."
"god-damn-it, she's rubbing oil on me!" (I hate oil/lotion)
"Now she's rubbing oil on my arms! I'm supposed to be getting a facial, why is she doing this? Did I sign-up for an option by accident? How much is this going to cost?"

I'll just chalk the whole thing up to my wife making me paranoid, lol.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

You have the right to speak up at any point during a service! Do so.

I’d shut down an esty trying to oil me up in seconds, with an icy “you are out of your scope.”

 

[286798]

I am often totally oblivious to when men were/are hitting on me and only much later will realize it. In reading this OP, I thought she might be going for tips or an ego boost for herself. (I know some women who wreck other relationships just because they want validation that they're attractive... they have no real aspirations to date whatever dude is in a relationship... they just want to know he thinks she's more attractive than the girl he was with.) If she mentioned having a spouse and grands, I'm not sure that goes with the "hitting on" part... but when I read about the shoulder/chest part for the facial, that seems "off" to me.

Agree with all of SB's points.

 

[deleted1547822]

You have the right to speak up at any point during a service! Do so.

I’d shut down an esty trying to oil me up in seconds, with an icy “you are out of your scope.”

Well, with the hot towel wrapped around my face, it would have come out sounding like a kidnapping victim "Mmmph, mmmph, mmmph!! lol

I'll keep that in mind though, and thanks for the advice.

 

[deleted1547822]

I am often totally oblivious to when men were/are hitting on me and only much later will realize it. In reading this OP, I thought she might be going for tips or an ego boost for herself. (I know some women who wreck other relationships just because they want validation that they're attractive... they have no real aspirations to date whatever dude is in a relationship... they just want to know he thinks she's more attractive than the girl he was with.) If she mentioned having a spouse and grands, I'm not sure that goes with the "hitting on" part... but when I read about the shoulder/chest part for the facial, that seems "off" to me.

Agree with all of SB's points.

She's probably in her mid 40's, and has two kids from the previous marriage. The current spouse is the one that has kids/grandkids. I could see the validation thing as potentially being the case.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Well, with the hot towel wrapped around my face, it would have come out sounding like a kidnapping victim "Mmmph, mmmph, mmmph!! lol

I'll keep that in mind though, and thanks for the advice.

Funny, but she isn’t strapping your hands down.
If she is, you have wandered into a dominitrix.

 

[deleted1547822]

Funny, but she isn’t strapping your hands down.
If she is, you have wandered into a dominitrix.

Well, she did stick a hot wax q-tip in my nose.

I didn’t process what she was doing until it was too late. Ohhhh nooooo... lol

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Well, she did stick a hot wax q-tip in my nose.

I didn’t process what she was doing until it was too late. Ohhhh nooooo... lol

Thorough.

 

[deleted1547822]

I realized I forgot to followup on this with my wife's response. I was curious about other opinions before I asked her, and thanks again for the replies.

Surprisingly, she didn't default to "of course she is". Instead, her answer was "somewhere from maybe to probably, since I wasn't there. If she is, she did a good job of leaving plausible deniability..." Her calculus is that the "action" comment from some months ago and her mentioning the "older" husband could be implying that she's not seeing enough action - which doesn't necessarily mean she's looking to me for that, but it doesn't mean she isn't either.

The real flag was the rubbing, and I guess I didn't describe it well enough earlier. It wasn't massaging so much as like when you're rubbing sunscreen on somebody and being very "thorough", to almost caressing. It just went on for probably too long, and was focused on my chest and upper arms.

Her final question was "so if she offers, are you going to take her up on it?", with me answering "of course not". So she said not to worry about it. If the lady is getting her jollies from it, she ought to give you a discount! If it does become blatant then make a decision on whether or not to go back.