Amazed: News from the Gay Front. Mormons conceding; AMA weighs in; DADT repeal coming

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Even as right-wing social cons gloat about gay marriage defeats in California and Maine (telling us that americans are "rejecting the militant gay agenda"), I'm noticing a whole swirl of gay-positive news this week.


    A couple hours ago, this from the Associated Press:

    Mormons throw support behind gay-rights cause

    It looked like a stunning reversal: the same church that helped defeat gay marriage in California standing with gay-rights activists on an anti-discrimination law in its own backyard.

    On Tuesday night, after a series of clandestine meetings between local gay-rights backers and Mormons in Salt Lake City, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced it would support proposed city laws that would prohibit discrimination against gays in housing and employment.

    The ordinances passed and history was made: It marked the first time the Salt Lake City-based church had supported gay-rights legislation.

    Mormons throw support behind gay-rights cause - Yahoo! News

    Now, no, they are not supporting gay marriage. It's not a huge deal. But ths is the first ever (as far as I know) support the Mormon Church has publicly expressed for gay rights. -- You know, baby steps...

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    From today's Advocate:

    DADT Likely to Be Part of Defense Bill

    Repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” will likely be included as part of next year’s Department of Defense authorization bill in both chambers of Congress, Congressman Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, said Wednesday.

    “Military issues are always done as part of the overall authorization bill,” Frank said, insisting that this has been the strategy for overturning the policy all along. “'Don’t ask, don’t tell' was always going to be part of the military authorization.”

    Frank said he has been in direct communication with the White House, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office, and other congressional leaders about the strategy for ending the 1993 ban on gays serving openly in the military.

    DADT Likely to Be Part of Defense Bill | News | Advocate.com


    Ok, I'm not wild about the way they're going about this, but -- Remember that Matthew Shepard Bill that just passed (hate crimes legislation)? To ensure passage, it was tacked on to the end of a $680 billion defense bill (this provides skittish lawmakers with political "cover"). At any rate, a repeal of DADT is planned for next year -- to be tacked on to the end of the NEXT multi-billion dollar defense appropriations bill. Ho-hum, but at least it's progress, I suppose....

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    I posted a comment yesterday that bears repeating:

    AMA votes to seek repeal of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’

    Associated Press

    CHICAGO — The American Medical Association today voted to oppose the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, and declared that gay marriage bans contribute to health disparities.

    The nation’s largest doctors’ group stopped short of saying it would seek to overturn marriage bans, but its new stance angered conservative activists and provides a fresh boost to lobbying efforts by gay-rights advocates.

    HeraldNet: AMA votes to seek repeal of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’

    It wasn't DADT that caught my eye here. It was the AMA's support for gay marriage. And the wording: that gay marriage holds health benefits for gay couples (just as cons claim that traditional marriage holds health benefits for straight couples). And that the Medical Industry is going to take a political stand supporting health benefits.

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    Also, as I've noted elsewhere, marriage equality has 47.5% support in Maine, 48% support in California (though these referenda lost), and Washington state passed its "Anything but Marriage" Domestic Partnership law, via referendum, last Tuesday (11/3).


    The culture is in the process of change right now, in these years, these months. I'm noticing it all around us.
     
  2. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    This story angers me. The D.C. council is supposed to vote in gay marriage next month. That's all that's necessary for that district. Plus a signature by the mayor, who says he'll sign. All the votes are there. A done deal.


    But now, the Catholic Archdiocese (& Catholic Charities) is saying it will stop all social programs in D.C. (food, clothing, shelter for the poor, etc) if gay marriage is voted in.

    Catholic Archdiocese In D.C. May Stop Social Service Programs Due To Gay Marriage Bill
     
    #2 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Nov 12, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  3. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    The Mormons are not our friends. Their latest ploy in Salt Lake is a total smoke screen that they've thrown up. Opening in a few days is an in depth documentary about exactly how big a role they played in the whole prop 8 fiasco in California. They're trying to buy a little P.R. before the shit hits the fan. A Lovely quote from their endorsement:

    "The Church supports this ordinance because it is fair and reasonable and does not do violence to the institution of marriage.

    Daily Kos: Mormon leadership comes out in support of (some) basic rights for (some) LGBT Utahns
     
  4. JTalbain

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    Wow. As a Catholic, I'll be the first to state that this is a serious dick move on the part of the Church. It's using emotional blackmail and threatening social welfare in order to try to influence legislation. In a way, it's like terrorism, except people are calling to Jesus instead of Allah, and no bombs are involved.
     
  5. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Industrialsize: What is really frustrating about CA is that the vote was so close (52%-48%) . And that NOM played on people's fears in the tv commercials they helped fund (schools indoctrinating children into a "gay agenda" -- teachers being forced to teach 3rd graders that same-sex marriage is "normal" and that their son Jimmy can marry a prince!). The Mormon Church's sudden "support" for non-discrimination does reek of a PR campaign.


    JTalbain: ("As a Catholic...") You are one of the most rational people on this site. When the Bible delivers talking snakes in the Garden of Eden into its narrative, and virgin births and wine to water, water from rocks, and an apocalyptic Second Coming (the "Rapture") in Israel.... how do you maintain your rationality in the face of such supernaturalisms & mysticisms?
     
    #5 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Nov 12, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
  6. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    The word you're looking for is dominoes, Will. Although I have to agree with Indy. As usual.

    The Mormons are not our friends. Their latest ploy in Salt Lake is a total smoke screen
     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    This makes my head explode. The level of blackmail, the hatefulness of the motive, much less the action, makes me homicidal.
     
  8. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I despise the American Catholic Church. It's a hateful organization bent on repression, duplicity, and relentless self-interest at the expense of the very people it's supposed to serve. I wish the Catholic churches of other countries and their members could see what goes on here. I truly believe if Jesus were alive he'd despise their grotesque hypocrisy and were he the slightest bit divine, he'd will it into non-existence.
     
  9. milly

    milly New Member

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    Even as right-wing social cons gloat about gay marriage defeats in California and Maine (telling us that americans are "rejecting the militant gay agenda"), I'm noticing a whole swirl of gay-positive news this week.


    A couple hours ago, this from the Associated Press:

    Mormons throw support behind gay-rights cause


    Funny thing, as a New Yorker, I noticed a "202" area code (that's usually Wash., DC) automated dialer calling me for "research" and it was asking whether or not I believed that the institution of "marriage" should be between a man and a woman. I believe it allowed only three (two?) choices, so I gambled and said "yes" to see what the rest of this pseudo-survey would be. For background, I got a similar call like this *months* ago and it went on for a few minutes longer along the "marriage is between a man and a woman" rant. This time, though, it thanked me (thank you, blah, blah, blah) and hung up. This surprised me as I thought it would use this survey result to somehow push harder on the anti-gay agenda.
     
  10. milly

    milly New Member

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    Also, one article you might be interested in. It is about a very smart little boy named Will who is really thinking about what the "Pledge of Allegiance" is supposed to be about and why gays can't marry, adopt, etc.

    Arkansas Times
    Title: "A boy and his flag. Why Will won&#8217;t pledge" David Koon
    Updated: 11/5/2009
     
  11. kalipygian

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    MCC should apply for a grant to carry on what the RCC is droppping.
     
  12. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    From Reuters - Ballot language has been approved, signatures are being collected (one million needed? they'll get it); looks like another measure repealing the gay marriage ban will be on California's Nov. 2010 ballot, in one year.

    Can somebody tell me: Is there a downside to this? What does "too soon" mean? Don't you just keep resubmitting every 2 years until it's passed? What's the political danger?


    California gay marriage campaign kicks off - Yahoo! News
     
  13. midlifebear

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    As fond as I am of Willtom and his general enthusiasm, I'm sorry to inform that the mormon church is not conceding anything. They are far from being so open armed about homosexuality as everyone (including me) would hope. Salt Lake City Coporation, AKA Salt Lake, and Salt Lake County have had same sex partner benefits for employees of both entities for years; ever since Randy Horiuchi (a former Salt Lake County Commissioner) snuck them into a softball style bill that increased county employee benefits in lieu of the usual cost of living wage. This happened back in the mid to late 1980s. Horiuchi was/is not a mormon. No one really cared (except the mormon church) because at the time Salt Lake County Commissioners were all regarded as lower than thieves and Realtors who were illiterate. Former SLC mayor Rocky Anderson, a former mormon and way liberal dude, followed suit by strong-arming the Salt Lake City Council's to match the same rights and benefits of Salt Lake County employees. Mayor Anderson was able to do this primarily because: 1. he was a smart and highly experienced civil rights attorney, and 2. he knew where most of the skeletons were buried in the City Council's closet. But Salt Lake City is actually an odd bastion of liberal conservatives (yes, a bastion of oxymorons as well as other types of morons) and tends to vote completely opposite than the rest of the State.

    At the moment the LDS church is converting what used to be the central commercial district of SLC into a sort of mormon Disneyland, sucking up previously open City-owned property and right-of-ways and building their own version of the ideal modern mormon experience. In doing so, they have cut deals with the City, County, and State to police and enforce their own view of reality on what used to be public streets and property. Just check out how they recently had their Romney-like clones in dark suits try to arrest and disappear two young gay men who held hands and innocently kissed one another on what used to be part of Main Street - a taxpayer-owned thorough fare.

    No, sorry, but the Church of Cheese and Rice and Rattle the Snakes is not the friend of the GLBT community -- anywhere on the face of this particular Earth. And my advice: Don't hold your breath.
     
    #13 midlifebear, Nov 17, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2009
  14. cruztbone

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    Yes, it is amazing. Despite what happened in Maine, straight people are starting to realize that WE are people too. It is so heart warming to know that the Mormons will actually let me stand next to them in line at public places wihout wrapping themselves in their special underwear.
     
  15. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    The D.C. Council gay marriage vote is today. 10 of the 13 council members are bill sponsors, so this will pass. However, the Catholic Church is still putting up roadblocks.

    The Church, through it's social services arm, Catholic Charities, takes between $18-20 million dollars in city funding for homeless shelters, medical clinics, food pantries, and other charitable programs -- and has threatened to stop all Catholic Charities programs if the bill is not amended to exempt the church from recognizing same-sex marriages (for one thing, St. Matthew's, the archdiocese's cathedral -close to the White House and Capital Hill - and the Vatican, have no intention of granting benefits to gay employees' partners who work in their facilities, even though the Church takes taxpayer monies).

    If the Council is forced to amend the bill to exempt the Church from the new law, the vote may not take place today.

    Something tells me that when the Archbishop and the Vatican become directly involved in american politics, Thomas Jefferson's "wall between Church and State" has been breached.

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    The New Jersey senate could still pass same-sex marriage legislation, but it has to be done while Corzine is in office (as Christie does not support the bill).

    So, Catholic bishops declared Sunday (yesterday), a statewide "Day of Prayer" and urged the parishioners to "not stand silent in the face of this serious challenge."

    A pastor added that, "if they pass the bill the family's going to be destroyed."
     
  16. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    With luck it'll be they who are destroyed. Fuck our enemies as surely as they try to fuck us.
     
  17. MercyfulFate

    MercyfulFate New Member

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    I'm reporting you for terroristic threatening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Jason,

    A vote was held today and passed 11-2 in favor of gay marriage. I don't know why, but a second vote will be held in 2 weeks, Dec. 15 and will then go to the mayor for his signature (he says he'll sign).

    But, reading the article, I'm happy to say the council did not capitulate to the Catholic Church's blackmail:


    D.C. Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    The D.C. Council on Tuesday took the penultimate step to legalized same-sex marriage in the nation's capital, what many members deemed a final milestone in the near 30-year march to equality in Washington.

    The measure exempts all religious entities from having to perform or facilitate a gay marriage ceremony. But it does not allow those institutions to deny a gay married couple adoption services, for example, or health benefits for a gay employee.

    The other hiccup was the demand for a voter referendum on the matter, but the D.C. Board of Elections and Ethics tossed that proposal.

    "What we're looking at is the potential disintegration of an institution," Bishop Harry Jackson of Beltsville's Hope Christian Church, who led the ballot initiative effort, said after the vote.

    D.C. Council votes to legalize gay marriage | Washington Examiner

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    The Church was hoping to deny gay couples adoption rights and deny gay employee spousal health benefits, but the council did not cave.
     
  19. houtx48

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    now the church can pull out of helping the poor on the american taxpayers dime. everyone wins but the poor.
     
  20. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Good for DC! I hope it makes it to the end.
     
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