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America WILL Fall

Discussion in 'Politics' started by stratedude, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. stratedude

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    I know now that America will fall. Its no longer a question of "if" but rather "when".

    I just hope that there are strong leaders of good character and wisdom to pick up the pieces so that in the aftermath we can emerge with something that closer resembles what the original founders hoped for.
     
  2. CrombieMold

    CrombieMold Experimental Member

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    Good to see you have great faith in your country. Apparently you lacked something in your upbringing that failed to instill the great American spirit in you. Cheers!
     
  3. csal21

    csal21 Expert Member

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    Chill out, it's not the end of the world...or America for that matter...
     
  4. sargon20

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    Pssst every great power has fallen. All of them.
     
  5. kit_kat

    kit_kat Experimental Member

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    America will not fall. Way too many people have huge stakes in a strong America, stakes that involve very large amounts of money including some rather massive sovereign funds and with that a lot of livelihoods. You can take it to the bank that people do not want to lose the bets they made on America. Stop freaking out and do your job in this equation and that is to focus on figuring out how you can provide your people with health care, education, food and housing at prices they can afford.
     
  6. captain garbonzo

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    I don't really have any faith in the USA anymore, either. But it has more to do with our insatiable greed and too many people milking the system who shouldn't even be here and big business 'too big to fail' than government healthcare. Sure, socialized medicine is scary because it's totally new to us but look at what these big insurance companies and banks run amok have done. The reigns need to be pulled in if the USA really wants a chance to survive and thrive again.

    I think the healthcare could turn out to be good. Anyway, we won't know until it's put into action, so we need to just wait and see. It may not be what the founding fathers had in mind but I am sure they did not have big business ruining this country, either.

    Banks used to help americans buy homes and cars...now they are out to screw us for every last penny we have with all of their dirty tactics. The big banks are scumbags. If you people are not outraged at what they are doing, then you're not paying attention. Take your business to the smaller local banks. If they have not failed by now, they should be alright to put your money into. I don't think they will repeat their past mistakes...I hope.
     
  7. stratedude

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    I have the great American spirit. That is why I am holding out hope that it will be rebuilt properly. But it is a fact - it will fall and much sooner than everyone expects just like the mighty USSR. The pieces are in place to make it a certainty. We had a chance to avoid the iceburg but there are two facts we cannot avoid: #1 we hit the iceburg. #2 the damage is sufficient that the Titanic *WILL* go down. It is a mathematical certainty.

    What I am hoping is that the very idea of Freedom that is America does not go out like the cruise industry after the Titanic sank.
     
  8. Drifterwood

    Drifterwood Superior Member

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    America will change.

    What I am fascinated by is why you think some mythologized historical figures should still be the blueprint for how you run your affairs?

    Are you talking about the Pilgrims or Washington et al, or native Americans even; maybe the bankers and industrialists of the Twentieth Century?
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy Banned

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    America has never been a problem with me. I remain optimistic even when things look bleak. However, some of its inhabitants I could do without.

    We can start with the OP. :rolleyes:
     
  10. B_starinvestor

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    Its not that bad.

    One thing is for certain - the government will be forced to shrink over the next 10 years. Our deficit is way too high, and there is no other way to start paying that down other than reducing spending and the sheer mammoth size of gov't.

    That will be a good thing.

    The present-day politicians on both sides are utterly horrendous. Reducing their size/scope and power is what most Americans want.

    This administration has been a disaster, and coming off of the heels of the last shitty administration, the American public is fed up. I don't remember the politicians being as corrupt and morally bankrupt at any other time in my lifetime.
     
  11. eurotop40

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    Hope you lost it already under W.
     
  12. midlifebear

    midlifebear Expert Member

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    Eurotop40 has hit very close to the target.
     
  13. stratedude

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    Lets talk about GREED for a second here. Greed is the one word that socialists have used to galvanize support against the perceived 'wealthy'. I say perceived because what is the definition of wealth in America? I am middle-middle class and I have lower-middle class and poor friends that think I am rich. They actually believe I have money to burn, really.

    But you want to know the REAL truth? The real truth is that I DON'T MAKE A DIME MORE THAN THEY DO. The real truth is that I live a slightly better life because I make more responsible decisions with my money. Instead of buying electronics, eating out every meal and going to the bar on the weekends, I save that money to live in a nicer neighborhood.

    Thats it. Period. End of story.

    So the truth is that WEALTH is not a pile of money. Wealth is a reflection of certain behavior patterns. Some would call it SUCCESS.

    Some of you may be saying, "Yeah but we arent talking about the middle class like you. We are talking about the RICH."

    What is rich? Upper middle class? I could perceive them as rich. Why not? They have more money than me, right? How about one step above upper-middle class? What is that? Upper class? Many of you may not realize that the classes never end. What are all the people between those that earn $250K per year and Bill Gates?

    Some of you may say, "Yeah but they don't need all that money. Once you hit a certain income level everything else is just excess."

    Really? Do you even think about the cost of doing business for some of these people? While some of you dream of that $250,000 Bently that you will never have in your lifetime, these people are pulling money together to buy a $25 million private aircraft. Oh I'm sure its to cruise around and impress their friends and go on vacation 365 days a year, right? Think again! These are an imperative part of what made them successful in the first place. And think of all the people this 'rich' guy is employing in the process. The aircraft manufaturer, the maintenance, hotel employees etc, etc. That's only the tip of the iceburg.

    Now for the REAL truth again. This is not greed. This is your misperception. You don't like these people. Why? It's because they have what you can never have in your lifetime. That's called ENVY. So its not about GREED. It's really about ENVY. And socialists use envy as a way to get gain power. They use the word "greed" to trigger your envy. They point to businesses that are failing causing people to lose their jobs and CEO's with their golden parachutes to support their 'greed' arguement and to help you justify your feelings of ENVY. But in a PROPERLY FUNCTIONING CAPITALIST system, failing companies are an indication of the OPPOSITE of success - failure. They must fall and make way for success. Bailouts support failure. It takes money away from the people and gives it to the bad failures under the RIDICULOUS idea that its going to save jobs. You want jobs? Support SUCCESS and stop calling it GREED and put a stop to your feelings of ENVY. You'll have all the jobs you need from the successful companies.
     
  14. Industrialsize

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    America is NOT falling, it's RISING like a Phoenix from 8 years of the DEBACLE known as Bush.
     
  15. Catchoftheday

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    Is it going to fall into the ocean or what. If it does wont it make a big splash :eek:
     
  16. midlifebear

    midlifebear Expert Member

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    Actually, Industrialsize is correct. Things are getting better and can only get better, unless TeaBaggers turn into a Pol Pot Regime and start killing any and all of us who can think for ourselves.
     
  17. 798686

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    Hmm, it may have a gradual decline from it's position of pre-eminence - like the UK did - but I suspect it would take quite a while unless something drastic happened (on the scale of WW3 or whatever, lol).

    However, they may find their position as the world's leading superpower gradually eroded by the EU (unfortunately).
     
  18. sargon20

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    Not likely. EU no. China yes.
     
  19. 798686

    798686 Guest

    I'd like to agree with you, but the EU is becoming increasingly politically important on the world stage - and its trade regulations increasingly look set to become the benchmark the world is pressured into adhering to. :redface:

    I think many in the US underestimate the EU (and the damage it could potentially do?) because they don't yet see what's happening behind the scenes. China is very powerful now...but I guess we'll see.
     
  20. TomCat84

    TomCat84 Expert Member

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    I disagree. While the US will not be the only super power in the future, it won't be because the US has declined. It will be because other countries/blocs have risen.
     
  21. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    *gasp* the sick and poor will get treatment in America now! The end is nigh!!

    wait, that sounds backwards doesn't it?
     
  22. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    It's not really a matter of how advanced the inner EU is compared to china right now; it's just a matter of simple population. The EU has 8-9% of the world population while china has 20% and has been moving in th right direction for the last 30 years. It's really only a matter of time, and not in a bad way (I mean what kind of person laments 20% of the world having better lives when all it means is more expensive shirts and toothbrushes for us?)
     
  23. sargon20

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    The real question is are there enough resources on the planet to support all the superpowers and wannabe's? Not likely.
     
  24. BigDallasDick8x6

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    Our overconsumption and debt levels are the reason for China's rise. We buy more than we can afford and they loan us money to buy more from them. We are spending and borrowing our way into disaster. And I don't mean government spending and borrowing -- I mean consumer borrowing. But that isn't as popular to criticize as government actions.
     
  25. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    There won't be if we stick to oil as a fuel source. Remember when prices skyrocketed a few years ago and how they still remain about as high? That was when china started competing with us for oil field contracts and they'll only need more energy sources as more of them urbanize.
     
  26. BigDallasDick8x6

    BigDallasDick8x6 Loved Member

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    A woman at work was going on about how she didn't want to pay for someone else's health care. I pointed out that I am single and have no children and yet I pay taxes that go to the schoold district. Here in Dallas the taxes for the school district are higher than the taxes for the city. In fact I think if you total the city, county, hospital district, and community college district and add them together I don't pay as much to all of them combined as I do to the school district to educate other people's children. Her husband is a teacher and she is a former teacher. She was pretty much left speechless by the analogy of me paying taxes for someone else's kids, taxes which go into her pocket, yet she doesn't want to pay anything for anyone else's health care.
     
  27. BigDallasDick8x6

    BigDallasDick8x6 Loved Member

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    The only thing that rescued us from snowballing commodity shortages was the Great Recession. Cement and steel prices spiked due to Chinese construction. At some point we will pull out of this recession and metal prices and other commodities will go up again. Sustainability has to be a prime consideration going forward.
     
  28. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    Their loans to us are reasons for the good position their government is in for spending on public services like schooling, roads, and their upcoming high-speed rail network (which is REALLY gonna get things going).

    And private consumers aren't really borrowing anything from China; buying, yeah, but it's not like Americans are going to china and borrowing from their banks (which would probably be nice; 98% of chinese banking transactions are public with low interest rates). Of course by keeping their currency value low China's taking a little TOO much advantage at the expense of its lower class.
     
  29. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    if she has insurance, she's ALREADYpaying for someone else's health care. Now she doesn't need to worry about bring royally chested out of money that she undoubtedly deserves more than any insurance company. Jeez people are stupid.
     
  30. dandelion

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    Its true. Typically the US is perceived as being especially vulnerable to oil price shock because it refuses to put up fuel taxes. You may not like them, but it gets people used to high costs and they are better able to cope when real price rises happen. Tax policies can help the economy if you raise the money you need in the right way.

    I don't believe the US will fall in any way which really affects US citizens at home. The US homeland is pretty safe and self sufficient. Whether it loses its world influence is quite another matter. I think it will. I am skeptical it can continue its current vast expenditure on arms, and even if it can there are going to me more large armies out there staring back.

    The third leg may be banks. Financial services of all sorts have got away with murder in recent years and I don't see this continuing. Nothing has changed yet, but its one of situations where the charges have gone off but nothing yet has collapsed and people are still rushing round inspecting.
     
    #30 dandelion, Mar 22, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
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