American English is Often Weird

[B_sugarandspice]

All languages are mutt languages and all languages are difficult and all languages are weird, all of which is why I love all languages and all versions of them. There really is no one correct form of any language no matter how many people are convinced their version is the correct one. I might also add that the distinction between languages and dialects is linguistically arbitrary and is primarily political.

The interesting thing about English is that as an imperial global dominant language it is now going the same way as Latin, being spoken in more and more places that all ultimately craft their own version of the language. If you want wierd English you should all try out Indian English for size. (Fortunately that very important version is one of the mere handful I am familiar with, although there are many other versions of English that are even more interesting).

One of the many reasons most English-speakers never get around to learning other languages is that they are so busy learning different versions of their own language, which is a really good thing, but also really too bad because other languages are really worth learning too (and they usually only have a tiny fraction of the number of different versions that English has).

Anyway I have to say that in any case I am still learning English even if I do dabble in other languages, so thank you all for all your contributions to njqt33's thread

I like the Hawaiian/Polynesian version and South Texas mexican/tejano/ chicano version
and I love all the things black people say and the way they phrase things. I like the way american gay people speak as well. The slang and dialect makes me happy when I hear it.
I love to hear people from the bayous of Louisiana and Florida -Cajuns and Coonasses. I had to cry a little bit. I miss New Orleans and Baton Rouge. I lived on Royal St. across the street form The Court of two sisters above the frame shop on the third floor. I still cry about twice a week since Hurricane Katrina. They were so sweet to me and fed me so well. I miss the sounds of the violins and harmoinca and the dancing.

 

[Bbucko]

Hmmmm, three thoughts:

In 1990 I spent three weeks in Spain (Barcelona & Sitges) where I met a really odd guy who insisted that he couldn't understand anything of American English, that only "proper British English" was intelligible to him (in Spanish, as he wasn't brave enough to speak any English at all). I made a face and launched into my best faux-Queen's English, only to have him mutter a curse and leave. His friend found it so endearing that we spent the next thirty or so hours in my hotel room.

My Boston English creeps out in odd ways, and is especially apparent here in Florida where it's less common. Although I drop "Rs" like crazy, I also have an odd habit of putting them where they down belong, such as "I saw-r-it", or, to my dismay when it was pointed out, "draw-r-ing".

In addition to English, my French is excellent. I studied it for many years in school and lived in Paris for several years besides. My French lover was very strict regarding my accent (English is a language of accents, French is not). Within a year of my arrival most people who didn't know I was American said that I sounded vaguely Swiss, which I took as a compliment. Having been with so many Latinos (and having traveled to Spain and South America), my Spanish is fair. I understand it perfectly well, but have always been too lazy to learn the verbs, so my spoken vocabulary consists almost entirely of nouns and adjectives (and curse words). My joke (which is actually kinda true) is that I learned all my Spanish in bed.

 

[str82fcuk]

what is local-color?

I believe it is the special feel or flavour or look or sense or taste or habits of a particular district ...

 

[str82fcuk]

Sounds fascinating. Could you please elaborate?

The most interesting versions of English are the ones spoken by only a few people in small isolated remote places such as islands.

Jamaican English is a good example altho'ugh is actually spoken by more than three million people, and all the Carribean islands have their own distinct accents, many of them influenced by different languages. 'Badian' for example, which is spoken in Barbados was influenced by East Indian languages, and like many other versions is also based on a very antiquated form of the language.

Newfoundland English is pre-Shakespearian in origin and was started before the great vowel shift that occurred in England in the 16th century. There are also, due to the many isolated 'outports' there, more distinct accents in Newfoundland alone than in all the rest of North America put together.

There are also many post-colonial forms of English in places where English is not normally spoken as a mother tongue but where English is widely used and has a high social status. The many varieties of Indian and Pakistani and Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan English are good examples of this, as are the numerous varieties of African English, and also Malaysian English and Singapore English ("Singlish"), while in New Guinea, "Pijin" English is actually the official language.

One of my shortcomings is not learning to speak a foreign language fluently. I really think I'd enjoy it!

Its never too late to learn a bit but hardly anyone ever really becomes completely fluent in a foreign language if they start when they are older than about twenty at the latest ...

 

[sjprep06]

Its never too late to learn a bit but hardly anyone ever really becomes completely fluent in a foreign language if they start when they are older than about twenty at the latest ...

Oh crap, I'm over 19.5 years old right now I started learning Spanish but I had all bad teachers in highschool who couldn't be bothered to teach it and as a result, I lost interest in it. I really would like to learn it and German, possibly french.

I always heard that Japanese is heard to learn because they don't really have a concept of plurals. So one word could mean one or a group of the same thing. The only thing to give distinction is context.

 

[SteveHd]

sjprep06, you're not too old to learn a new language. You're at an age in which it's easier. It's said that it's harder to learn new things when you get older; I can confirm that. Don't wait.

 

[JustAsking]

Here is so something uniquely American. I believe it came about because English lost the notion of a singular and plural "you". It is the southern "y'all", which I find so useful, that I wish it was used universally in America. Here in the North, we are reduced to saying "you guys" because we need "y'all", but we are too proud to acquire it.

Spending some time in the South, however, I was introduced to the proper conjugation of y'all in all its forms. Naturally, y'all is a contraction of "you all", but the interesting thing is that for some reason, it doesn't mean exactly what you think it would mean. You have to actually go one step farther to denote the fact that you are addressing a group, rather than one person.

Here are the rules as I have learned them:

y'all - singular, as in addressing one person, "would y'all like to have some coffee with me?"

y'all's - singular posessive, as in addressing one person, "is that y'all's seat or can I sit there?"

all y'all - plural, as in addressing a group, "could all y'all gather around for a brief announcement?"

all y'all's - plural posessive, as in addressing a group, "i hope all y'all's holidays were joyful."

Someone correct me if I have it wrong.

 

[Calboner]

y'all - singular, as in addressing one person, "would y'all like to have some coffee with me?"

y'all's - singular posessive, as in addressing one person, "is that y'all's seat or can I sit there?"

all y'all - plural, as in addressing a group, "could all y'all gather around for a brief announcement?"

all y'all's - plural posessive, as in addressing a group, "i hope all y'all's holidays were joyful."

Someone correct me if I have it wrong.

I am not sure about that first observation. A friend of mine from Little Rock, Arkansas tells me that the only occasion on which a Southerner would use "y'all" in addressing one person is when he or she means to include others— for example, if the invitation to coffee is meant to include someone whom you might bring along. On the other hand, I think that I have heard "y'all" used where only the addressee could have been meant. If the expression is so used then it is merely a pointless duplicate of the word "you" (which, as you probably know, is originally the plural form anyway).

 

[str82fcuk]

Oh crap, I'm over 19.5 years old right now I started learning Spanish but I had all bad teachers in highschool who couldn't be bothered to teach it and as a result, I lost interest in it. I really would like to learn it and German, possibly french.

I always heard that Japanese is heard to learn because they don't really have a concept of plurals. So one word could mean one or a group of the same thing. The only thing to give distinction is context.

Please don't let me discourage you! While you will never be as fluent as a native speaker you can still learn enough to be able to manage more than comfortably in most situations. While languages are harder to learn at 20 than at 10, it becomes even harder the older you get so don't wait. Also if you do know a second language then it becomes easier to learn a third language. Increasingly in the world today, bilingualism is an absolute must-have and trilingualism is imho something everyone should strive for. I wish I knew Spanish because it is today the second or third most important language in the world. I would not try to learn more than two additional languages at this stage (unless you just want to be able to order stuff in a restaurant or something terribly basic like that) because learning another language is a huge commitment. French is for various reasons a very awkward language for English-speakers to learn unless you are absolutely determined, but it is still more important than German, which is a lot easier, if only because most German-speakers outside Germany also speak English. I like German a lot though (and I also like French). Japanese is so complicated I can't even begin to describe it. Maybe you should just concentrate on Spanish Good Luck!

Here is so something uniquely American. I believe it came about because English lost the notion of a singular and plural "you". It is the southern "y'all", which I find so useful, that I wish it was used universally in America. Here in the North, we are reduced to saying "you guys" because we need "y'all", but we are too proud to acquire it.

I am not sure about that first observation. A friend of mine from Little Rock, Arkansas tells me that the only occasion on which a Southerner would use "y'all" in addressing one person is when he or she means to include others— for example, if the invitation to coffee is meant to include someone whom you might bring along. On the other hand, I think that I have heard "y'all" used where only the addressee could have been meant. If the expression is so used then it is merely a pointless duplicate of the word "you" (which, as you probably know, is originally the plural form anyway).

I love you all and have consciously adopted it by choice because it is so useful. you was indeed originally only the plural form but now that it is well established as being both singular and plural (but primarily singular), we sure do need this wonderful innovation. I also like the possessive you all's although I tend not to use the contractions y'all and y'all's unless I want to be less formal

I have heard you all used in the singular sense but that is comparatively rare and is I believe not the 'true' singular but is meant rather, as your examples indicate, to replace the impersonal one which has unfortunately fallen out of usage here in North America. Anyway I love quizzing Southerners on this every time I meet one of you all up here in Canada

 

[JustAsking]

I am not sure about that first observation. A friend of mine from Little Rock, Arkansas tells me that the only occasion on which a Southerner would use "y'all" in addressing one person is when he or she means to include others— for example, if the invitation to coffee is meant to include someone whom you might bring along. On the other hand, I think that I have heard "y'all" used where only the addressee could have been meant. If the expression is so used then it is merely a pointless duplicate of the word "you" (which, as you probably know, is originally the plural form anyway).

Thanks for the edification. My schooling in this came from the Cumberland Mountain area of Tennessee, outside of Nashville. Perhaps the escalation to one more level in the plural form is regional. I sure did hear the phrase "all y'all" everywhere around there, though.

 

[bottombuddy]

i love the uk with its diversity of different accents and slang words......you can go every 5-10 miles and accents change......well defenitely where i am in scotland they do....i love it and think its cool.

 

[sjprep06]

sjprep06, you're not too old to learn a new language. You're at an age in which it's easier. It's said that it's harder to learn new things when you get older; I can confirm that. Don't wait.

Please don't let me discourage you! While you will never be as fluent as a native speaker you can still learn enough to be able to manage more than comfortably in most situations. While languages are harder to learn at 20 than at 10, it becomes even harder the older you get so don't wait. Also if you do know a second language then it becomes easier to learn a third language. Increasingly in the world today, bilingualism is an absolute must-have and trilingualism is imho something everyone should strive for. I wish I knew Spanish because it is today the second or third most important language in the world. I would not try to learn more than two additional languages at this stage (unless you just want to be able to order stuff in a restaurant or something terribly basic like that) because learning another language is a huge commitment. French is for various reasons a very awkward language for English-speakers to learn unless you are absolutely determined, but it is still more important than German, which is a lot easier, if only because most German-speakers outside Germany also speak English. I like German a lot though (and I also like French). Japanese is so complicated I can't even begin to describe it. Maybe you should just concentrate on Spanish Good Luck!

Thanks SteveHd and str82fcuk for your replies. I know I won't be fluent but I want to be fluent enough to participate in fast-paced conversations, much like most native speakers do in English. I guess it's time to try out this Rosetta Stone software (Rosetta Stone: Learn English, Learn Spanish, Learn French, Learn German, Learn Italian, and 25 other languages with our language-learning software packages.) they keep advertising on tv :tongue:

Oh, and I never wanted to learn Japanese. It confuses the hell out of me too :biggrin1:

 

[Nrets]

I aint got no whatchamacallit know how. Nope. Aint misbehavin.

 

[Calboner]

i love the uk with its diversity of different accents and slang words......you can go every 5-10 miles and accents change......well defenitely where i am in scotland they do....i love it and think its cool.

Can you tell us, from his accent, what part of Scotland Fat Bastard comes from?

"AH'M DEAD SEXEH!"

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
Someone correct me if I have it wrong.

I'm aghast, I think your friends in Tennessee were yanking your chain!

I am not sure about that first observation. A friend of mine from Little Rock, Arkansas tells me that the only occasion on which a Southerner would use "y'all" in addressing one person is when he or she means to include others— for example, if the invitation to coffee is meant to include someone whom you might bring along. On the other hand, I think that I have heard "y'all" used where only the addressee could have been meant. If the expression is so used then it is merely a pointless duplicate of the word "you" (which, as you probably know, is originally the plural form anyway).

I'm from Conway, and lived and worked in Little Rock for several years! We may know some of the same people!

"Y'all" should never ever be used as a singular. Ever. It would be as appropriate as using "they" or "them" as a third-person singular.

"Y'all's" as a possessive is uncommon. "Your" is a more usual plural possessive.

 

[Calboner]

I'm from Conway, and lived and worked in Little Rock for several years! We may know some of the same people!

Well, from what my friend tells me, there is a fair chance that you know his mother, who, according to him, is talkative not only by the standards of women but even by the standards of SOUTHERN women, which is to say that she can hardly pass a minute of the day without talking to someone! I think he told me that her maiden name was Conway, too, if that is of any relevance.

"Y'all" should never ever be used as a singular. Ever. It would be as appropriate as using "they" or "them" as a third-person singular.

I hope that you are right, i.e. that "y'all" is only used with reference to a plurality. On the other hand, people all over the English-speaking world use "they" to apply to a single person all the time. E.g.: "Someone called for you, but they didn't leave a message."

 

[str82fcuk]

Hmmm y'all are very interesting ....
I also hope that "y'all" is not being used as a pure singular
(I'm pretty sure though that y'all are still using the word "you" in the vast majority of pure singular contexts )
but I'm also pretty sure that "y'all" is sometimes used as the impersonal generic third person which could be singular or plural as in "y'all have to pay tax" instead of "one has to pay tax" or "you have to pay tax".
This impersonal generic third person usage could however be a bit confusing and might explain the perceived need for "all y'all" .... although "all y'all" could be 'simply' introducing an additional level of specificity for larger or less intimate groupings for no other reason than that it is useful and nice to have ??

 

[DC_DEEP]

Well, from what my friend tells me, there is a fair chance that you know his mother, who, according to him, is talkative not only by the standards of women but even by the standards of SOUTHERN women, which is to say that she can hardly pass a minute of the day without talking to someone! I think he told me that her maiden name was Conway, too, if that is of any relevance.

Perhaps... I'm from the city Conway, though, not the family Conway. I would be more likely to know him, though, unless his mother was either active in the gay community or in the education system.

I hope that you are right, i.e. that "y'all" is only used with reference to a plurality. On the other hand, people all over the English-speaking world use "they" to apply to a single person all the time. E.g.: "Someone called for you, but they didn't leave a message."

Well, yes, lots of people make that mistake, but I was referring more to the usage "Have you heard from Calboner? I haven't seen them post in a quite a while."

 

[ZOS23xy]

Some oddness of English is "plateau English" which is English taught in Switzerland by people who have never encountered an English or American citizen. I knew a diplomatic brat whose accent I could not place--traces of German and French in it. She explained.

 

[Gillette]

Use of the word "anymore" in a positive sense weirds me out somewhat.

Before joining LPSG I had only ever heard it in terms of "not anymore" indicating a cessation of whatever was being referred to.

"I don't have one night stands anymore"
vs
"All I seem to have are one night stands anymore"

I've looked it up and it seems to be a regional substitution for "nowadays".

Even knowing this I still find it jarring and have to give myself a mental shake when reading it used in a positive context.