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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_N Flay Table, Jun 7, 2007.
nobody has touched this yet, so I thougth I would.
Well, I hope they're *illegal* aliens... I don't know where Illigal is, but it's probably not a planet in this galaxy.
Thanks, I was outside on the laptop, couldn't really see what I was typing
Blocko, I notice that you're from Western Australia. Maybe you could tell the Americans what 'Detention Centers' are.
Easy to do, they're privately run prisons for illegal immigrants (including families and children) and people who require extended immigration processing (without criminal charges). They're the horrendous places our sometimes despicable government sends people due to xenophobia and poor management. They now release families into the wider community (generally).
They exist in the USA and you don't hear about them very much, which is odd, because they do come up for discussion here. There is one in Pennsylvania and one in Texas that is allowed to hold families and children of non-Mexican immigrants on non-criminal charges (there are loads more for Mexican immigrants).
*Sigh* I wish ppl would realize that human migration has been a normal part of our shared history for eons before the arbitrary drawing of political/national boundaries.
I despise the abuse of language for political agendas. It's not a debate on immigration, but rather a debate on who we want to share our money, power, and wealth with.
Well Well once upon on time I was a illgal ""alien"" in the USA and I hated to be call an ALIEN sounds to me like I came from another planet toke me very long time at least a fucking ten years to be a citizen from the US belived the goverment dont care if you are illegal or not they dont even care to look for you or your applications in the dep. INS and once you go there anytime you need you are treat like shit by those ignorant stupid asses that work there if you dont belived just ask anyone that has bussines whity tham.
I dont belived they will aprove any laws to legalise any immigrants they make way much more money by have them ""illegal""
So do I.
That's part of it. So, should we open it up to everyone regardless of where they are? At present, people at great distances are at a disadvantage.
Even Russia is having problems: BBC NEWS | Europe | Moscow 'to cut migrant workers'
Russia's problem is a very low birth rate amongst "white" Russians and a high birth rate amongst those with darker complexions, especially muslims. What's going on in Russia is pure racism.
That would be optimal; however, realistically, our country's infrastructure would not be capable of supporting such a mass migration... assuming there is one. People in the first world think that everyone from poor countries will just pick up and move to America, Australia, or France at the drop of a hat. That's really not true. When I visited Vietnam around 2000 I was rather suprised to learn that the majority of 20-30 y.o.'s I talked with had no interest of leaving their families and moving to America. Unless the situation is unbearably horrible, people will make do and stay where they are at; but there is nationalistic pride at work too, people want to make their homeland better.
I am in favor of abolishing quotas by religious, HIV-status, national, socioeconomic, gender, and racial origin. If quotas are absolutely necessary, they should be even across the board on a first come first serve basis.
As for illegal immigrants not paying taxes or abusing social benefits, that's bullsh*t. Taxes are paid on everything, and even though they don't pay federal income tax per se, they get shafted on wage, worker disability, and continual fear of being deported on any minor infraction. Illegal immigrants end up paying taxes without gov't representation; it's the people that employ them that are screwing the system. As for social benefits, people don't pursue them when afraid of getting deported.
If the world's wealth were more equally distributed among all human beings we wouldn't have to deal with anomalies like Paris Hilton.
I think people may feel differently about this in the border states then people who live up north.
As for myself I am againsed amnesty for Illegal aliens, I do not feel people should be rewarded for breaking Americas laws.
I am not anti immigration, America was built on Immigration.
but it must be regulated just like EVERY other country in the world.
We tried amnesty 20-21 yrs ago in this country with a supposed 3 million illegal immigrants. From what I've read, it was "grant them amnesty first and we'll work on the problem of more illegals coming into the country second". Hmm, since we have 10-20 mil more, it shows how much resolve really exists to do the heavy lifting on this prob.
Talk all you like about expanding legal immigration - it's a worthy topic. There is nothing wrong with a country wanting to control its borders, especially in an age of terrorism threats. For the time being, we can debate what kind of border policy we need. If we ever did suffer an attack that was shown to enter our country from Mexico or Canada, what kind of border policy do you think would be passed in the heat of THAT moment?
A philosophical question:
Considering that up to 60% of Mexicans are Meztistos (having both Indigenous/Native bloodlines and European bloodlines) and whose forefathers occupied a large section of the US border states in earlier colonial and pre-colonial times, who are the "real" immigrants here?
good point rawbone...
Ok, all white, black, asian, and OTM. *other than Mexican*
Pack your bags and give up your homes..
somebody "occupied" the land you lived on hundreds of years ago.
actually, lets go ahead and kick out the mexicans too because American indians were here before them.
and on and on and on.
That just is not a relative topic.
I dont know, I just hae seen what has happend in los angeles in the last 20 years. there are some places of LA you just cannot go anymore for fear of litteraly being killed in the street.
there is a definate feeling of tension out here.
between the blacks and mexicans, whites and mexicans.
and a whole militant feeling from the latino community.
I live in a mostly mexican area, and I can tell you first hand I dont feel safe at nite.
Agree completely, rawb. It has crossed my mind many times that I live in a section of Mexico that was forcibly colonized by the US. And that certainly colors my thinking on immigration, which is to say my strong support for immigrant rights. Migrant farm workers, for example, have crossed the border with the seasons for hundreds of years, beginning when there was no "border." Only now, part of the land they roam has laws which make them criminals.
Immigrant workers and communities make my area thrive. I love living among them. I hate the system which both feeds off them and keeps them in fear at the same time. How convenient - and profitable.
I have European ancestry as well as a Native American ancestor dating to the early 1600's. That puts me on an equal footing with the people in your "philosophical" question. The difference is that I was born in the United States. Illegal aliens are people who entered our country illegally.
Aliens who want to work in the United States and who are needed to fill certain work related roles in our society should be welcomed but only on a temporary basis, they should be required to return to their country of origin at least one month out of every year, this will also help maintain their family ties. Any children born to aliens while they reside in the US should not become US citizens by default.
Given that we have good fortune (being born in our time and place is for many like winning a lottery) it's understandable that we assume our right to feel like we're the chosen people. I'm asking if the history that got us here has been ethical and just, in the literal meaning of just, not the legal meaning, and are the Mexican people involved and their ancestors direct actors in the geography of the areas?