Amy Winehouse has Emphysema at 24?
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D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
ok.
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
Well, we'll just have to disagree.
My point had nothing to do with accountability.
Obviously, something in the addict must happen before s/he will seek help usefully.
That's a given.
However, the likelihood of their doing that is probably enhanced if their humanity is affirmed by the people they are dealing with. This is important because they are burying their humanity under their substance- and self-abuse.
But even so, that's not my real point.
Judgmentality and blame are unhealthy for the person who judges and blames.
But that's not worth saying more than once.
So we will just have to disagree.
The problem is only partly one of having/not having the financial means.
Addiction is much more complicated than that.
And, small point: Why, FWIW, do you assume that all celebrities are rich?
My point had nothing to do with accountability.
Obviously, something in the addict must happen before s/he will seek help usefully.
That's a given.
However, the likelihood of their doing that is probably enhanced if their humanity is affirmed by the people they are dealing with. This is important because they are burying their humanity under their substance- and self-abuse.
But even so, that's not my real point.
Judgmentality and blame are unhealthy for the person who judges and blames.
But that's not worth saying more than once.
So we will just have to disagree.
The problem is only partly one of having/not having the financial means.
Addiction is much more complicated than that.
And, small point: Why, FWIW, do you assume that all celebrities are rich?
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
If she cleans up and actually takes steps to improve her life I would change my tune about her as a person. Again, we all have demons but it's how you deal with them and not allow them to become a crutch as you go through life that defines you. Otherwise she's just another potential cliche' pissing her talent away as did so many others.
You going to tell me she can't scrape 10 grand together? You don't have to be rich to afford decent rehab. Let's keep the straw man tactics to a minimum shall we?
And you don't need to tell me what addiction is like, or did you not read all my posts?
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
You don't get the point at all.
I'm saying, in principle, it's only partly a question of having, or lacking, the means to get help.
Of course Winehouse can scrape 10 grand together, no problem.
You misconstrued.
Moreover, there were no straw man tactics.
And my sense is, while you may be able to talk around the edges of addiction, you have a lot of fundamental misunderstandings of it ... an impression I have because I did read your posts.
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
Ok so you say "one small point" and then refer to money. I apply a statement to that and now it's me not understanding it's only one small part? I was only addressing that particular statement you made. Obviously getting help is much deeper than having the means to afford it.
So what misunderstandings of addiction do I have? Addiction isn't always about the addiction to the substance itself, there can be other issues that cause people to hide behind mind alterating chemicals. This is something I do know very much about. There are genetic reasons, simple addictive personalities, physical and mental reasons for being an addict etc etc etc.
For me it was trying to scrub the images out of my head that I didn't want to see anymore. So I hid in a bottle, this is also an issue I dealt with long ago and got under control. After semi-recent events I slipped, but fought my way back out of it again. My grandfather and uncle were severe addicts and it killed both of them.
So enlighten me, what misunderstandings do I have?
Wartacs posts make sense to me because, like Rubi said, he clearly understands the basics of addiction, but clearly doesn't understand the inner workings, which is what's making his posts sound so silly, thoughtless, and narrow.
If the world were as simple as "it's wrong, don't do it, got a problem-get help" then it wouldn't be as fucked up as it is. That's the problem with internet forums, people who don't know enough about something (like addiction) to write a paragraph feel that because there's a 14,000 letter limit, they can go on and on and on about it. Your opinions are valued, but that doesn't make them valuable. It's like a 5 year old trying to explain physics, you may have some cute ideas, and may hit a few targets, but overall you just look like a big blumbering fool.
If the world were as simple as "it's wrong, don't do it, got a problem-get help" then it wouldn't be as fucked up as it is. That's the problem with internet forums, people who don't know enough about something (like addiction) to write a paragraph feel that because there's a 14,000 letter limit, they can go on and on and on about it. Your opinions are valued, but that doesn't make them valuable. It's like a 5 year old trying to explain physics, you may have some cute ideas, and may hit a few targets, but overall you just look like a big blumbering fool.
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
And using insults doesn't make you appear smarter than you actually are either so spare me.
Again, someone tell me what I'm missing. I find a trend in these forums from mulitple people, they call someone out, call them various types of names and insults and then move on. Very few times is there a follow up statement regarding why that person was wrong, they just blow them off saying they are a "fool". So instead of making up bullshit reasons for someone being wrong, why not explain why?
Because otherwise your tactics do nothing more than make you look like a condescending jackass. Also, more or less copying what someone else already stated, or is changing up a few words and adding insults your way of having an original thought?
horsehungtim
Experimental Member
naughty, Not trying to be harsh or point out any holes in the fabric of the cosmos: CNN is like the X-files. The only other network giving a more balanced reporting is FOX. So......
I'm not condescending, but reading your posts, I clearly see a 5 year old trying to explain physics. I'm not saying your stupid, and these "bullshit reasons" have been prevalant in human behavior since the beginning of time so your simplistic assessments are nothing new, and have NOT been working for years. Again, I'm not saying your dumb but you clearly know as much about addiction and human behavior as I know about the mating habits of walruses. Do they even have sex??
The reason you're on the chopping block is because you're speaking heavily about something you clearly know nothing about. If I were you I'd sit back and learn rather than blabber your mouth. Pick up a book about human behavior, observe a few real life addicts, maybe visit an AA meeting, then come back and sound like you actually understand what you're talking about, otherwise you look foolish and silly. I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
Thanks for proving my point.....nothing but a repeat of your other post and attempting to be antagonistic. Trust me, it will take a person with a lot more than you have to offer to be able to get under my skin. Your attempts at trying to be clever have proven how "deep" your thinking actually is and it doesn't end with this thread.
The entire point is that a vast majority of celebs are spoiled children that have no grasp at all on what real life is. They get caught up in a lifestyle without using any judgement at all and ruin their lives and the lives of the people around them. My points have nothing to do with people that are dealing with real world issues. I would be shocked if we find anything that drove her to addiction other than her own stupidity.
I've been to AA meetings, I've lived with addicts, have relatives that were addicts and dealt with my own issues. You have the ability to make changes in your life, it's just a matter of finding that inner strength. I don't feel like I have to go further into my experiences to prove anything to anyone here, I know what I've seen and done.
And FYI, just because someone else agrees with you doesn't make you right. I'm sure there are a few that agree with my posts as well, doesn't prove anything.
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
Rehab lyrics
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
I'd rather be at home with Ray
I ain't got seventy days
Cause there's nothing
There's nothing you can teach me
That I can't learn from Mr Hathaway
I didn't get a lot in class
But I know it don't come in a shot glass
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
The man said 'why do you think you here'
I said 'I got no idea
I'm gonna, I'm gonna lose my baby
so I always keep a bottle near'
He said 'I just think your depressed,
kiss me here baby and go rest'
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
I don't ever wanna drink again
I just ooh I just need a friend
I'm not gonna spend ten weeks
have everyone think I'm on the mend
It's not just my pride
It's just 'til these tears have dried
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
-Amy Winehouse
Bold is mine...
Bold shows her moments of clarity. It's sad what addiction can do. Denial is very much part of the disease. Also pride, resentment, fear, and anger fuel the fire. I hope she gets help before it's too late. She has amazing talent, like many addicts.
I've had a theory about addicts and intelligence, creativity, and talent. Sometimes it seems that those who really experience pain are the most gifted among us and it takes addiction to bring them down...
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
I'd rather be at home with Ray
I ain't got seventy days
Cause there's nothing
There's nothing you can teach me
That I can't learn from Mr Hathaway
I didn't get a lot in class
But I know it don't come in a shot glass
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
The man said 'why do you think you here'
I said 'I got no idea
I'm gonna, I'm gonna lose my baby
so I always keep a bottle near'
He said 'I just think your depressed,
kiss me here baby and go rest'
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
I don't ever wanna drink again
I just ooh I just need a friend
I'm not gonna spend ten weeks
have everyone think I'm on the mend
It's not just my pride
It's just 'til these tears have dried
They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go go go
-Amy Winehouse
Bold is mine...
Bold shows her moments of clarity. It's sad what addiction can do. Denial is very much part of the disease. Also pride, resentment, fear, and anger fuel the fire. I hope she gets help before it's too late. She has amazing talent, like many addicts.
I've had a theory about addicts and intelligence, creativity, and talent. Sometimes it seems that those who really experience pain are the most gifted among us and it takes addiction to bring them down...
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
They seem to run together in many spheres of art, don't they simcha ... especially among blues and jazz singers, for whatever reason.
My GOD! I was wrong all along. Wartac just solved a problem that's been plaguing humanity for CENTURIES! QUICK!! Call the NY Post, this needs to be plastered on every shelter and recited by every addict: "Find that inner strength."
The fact that you've "solved" addiction in 9 words proves that you're trying to fix an entire car with a Fisher Price toy wrench. In theory, what you've suggested is plausible, yet still only a fraction of the solution. In the REAL WORLD where theories often crumble to pieces, there are so many factors that feed into addictive behavior that the problem CANNOT be solved in 9 words, or in 9 books, or with 9 anti-drug organizations, or a million of those things. You've hinted at intelligence, I'm asking you to dig a little deeper and offer better answers that you seem to be capable of. I'm giving your intelligence the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're feeling slightly self-righteous today, because that's how your posts are coming across. Don't be afraid to exercise that mind of yours.
Don't forget crazy people! Crazy people are all over the arts as well. :biggrin1:
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
Again, there is a lot of words there that are pure babble, it is quite entertaining I'll give you that.
I'll say it again, a good percentage of celebs become addicts because they are taken over by the lifestyle. It's not always complex regarding issues that they have dealt with throughout their lives.
I never said every single case is a simple one, I've stated as such more than once. Obviously there is more to just waking up one morning and saying "I think I'll stop smoking crack this morning". Your picking stuff out of my posts and focusing on certain items without considering everything together.
Would you care to share all of your first hand experience and expertise on the matter so it's understood how well you know the topic?
Again, I've had my own issues and have still struggle with them. It wasn't an instant fix, it was one of the hardest things I've had to do. Along with addressing other issues, so again, show me where I said every single case is the same and it's an easy thing to overcome.
D_Marazion Analdouche
Experimental Member
I'm sorry, I never picked up the book you wrote based on the research you did interviewing celebrity addicts throughout history, and general response and repercussions of fame. Must've missed that one. Glad we have a celeb expert in the house though who knows enough about celebrity to explain why they become addicts.
I did so earlier, I could elaborate if you'd like, but for the sake of the length of my posts, would you like my personal experience or my understanding of human behavior in general?
Considering you yourself say it was "one of the hardest things you've had to do", you sound pretty goddamn judgmental of other people and their addictions, especially celebrities who you've blindly typecasted and explained as if you've sat down and had a Barbara Walters-style interview with millions of them, addicts and non-addicts. You're doing a good job here acting as if you weren't being judgmental and simplistic in previous posts, and if this were your first post in this thread reaction towards you may have been different.
