An Ahmadinejad Christmas

Discussion in 'Politics' started by str8up8x6, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. str8up8x6

    str8up8x6 New Member

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    It looks like the media continues to lead the effort mock the Western world and it's values. Britain's Channel 4 chooses Iranian tyrant Ahmadinejad to deliver the Christmas message to it's viewers. An insult and a plain effort by the press to ridicule Christians and the Western democracies in which they live so comfortably and enjoy so many freedoms. Meanwhile Muslims in Europe riot and murder when a newspaper dares to publish a cartoon of Muhammed. Selective freedom of the press indeed.

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
     
  2. B_stanmarsh14

    B_stanmarsh14 New Member

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    More info here: BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Ahmadinejad show 'causes offence'

    Must say that the guy has some balls to talk about christian issues, with Iran's stance of Crhistiananty and homosexuality (IE... death penalaty), and worse still Channel 4 basicaly giving him a free hand in all of this.
     
  3. dong20

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    Let's see, the full text reads:

    "In the Name of God the Compassionate, the Merciful. - check

    "Upon the anniversary of the birth of Jesus, Son of Mary, the Word of God, the Messenger of mercy, I would like to congratulate the followers of Abrahamic faiths, especially the followers of Jesus Christ, and the people of Britain. - check

    "The Almighty created the universe for human beings and human beings for Himself. check

    "He created every human being with the ability to reach the heights of perfection. He called on man to make every effort to live a good life in this world and to work to achieve his everlasting life. check

    "On this difficult and challenging journey of man from dust to the divine, He did not leave humanity to its own devices. He chose from those He created the most excellent as His Prophets to guide humanity. check

    "All Prophets called for the worship of God, for love and brotherhood, for the establishment of justice and for love in human society. Jesus, the Son of Mary, is the standard-bearer of justice, of love for our fellow human beings, of the fight against tyranny, discrimination and injustice. check

    "All the problems that have bedevilled humanity throughout the ages came about because humanity followed an evil path and disregarded the message of the Prophets. check

    "Now as human society faces a myriad of problems and a succession of complex crises, the root causes can be found in humanity's rejection of that message, in particular the indifference of some governments and powers towards the teachings of the divine Prophets, especially those of Jesus Christ. indirect dig at secular Government and pluralism, well sort of ...

    "The crises in society, the family, morality, politics, security and the economy which have made life hard for humanity and continue to put great pressure on all nations have come about because the Prophets have been forgotten, the Almighty has been forgotten and some leaders are estranged from God. see above

    "If Christ were on earth today, undoubtedly He would stand with the people in opposition to bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers. check

    "If Christ were on earth today, undoubtedly He would hoist the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies the world over. check

    "If Christ were on earth today, undoubtedly He would fight against the tyrannical policies of prevailing global economic and political systems, as He did in His lifetime. dig at globalisation - check

    "The solution to today's problems is a return to the call of the divine Prophets. The solution to these crises is to follow the Prophets - they were sent by the Almighty for the good of humanity. Not so sure about that

    "Today, the general will of nations is calling for fundamental change. This is now taking place. Demands for change, demands for transformation, demands for a return to human values are fast becoming the foremost demands of the nations of the world. What are these 'human' values?

    "The response to these demands must be real and true. The prerequisite to this change is a change in goals, intentions and directions. If tyrannical goals are repackaged in an attractive and deceptive package and imposed on nations again, the people, awakened, will stand up against them. Check

    "Fortunately, today, as crises and despair multiply, a wave of hope is gathering momentum. Hope for a brighter future and hope for the establishment of justice, hope for real peace, hope for finding virtuous and pious rulers who love the people and want to serve them – and this is what the Almighty has promised. Hmm, maybe

    "We believe Jesus Christ will return, together with one of the children of the revered Messenger of Islam and will lead the world to love, brotherhood and justice. I doubt that

    "The responsibility of all followers of Christ and Abrahamic faiths is to prepare the way for the fulfilment of this divine promise and the arrival of that joyful, shining and wonderful age. Sure

    "I hope that the collective will of nations will unite in the not too distant future and with the grace of the Almighty Lord, that shining age will come to rule the earth. check

    "Once again, I congratulate one and all on the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ. I pray for the New Year to be a year of happiness, prosperity, peace and brotherhood for humanity. I wish you every success and happiness." check

    Well, I'm pretty sure Jesus would oppose expansionist powers, bullying and warmongering.

    Now, where are those attacks on and mocking of Christian nations, peoples and values? I don't see anything that couldn't be equally levelled against radial Islam (for example). Is it perhaps that 'we' have a guilty conscience.

    What I see is a good deal of generalism. That many choose to percieve much of it as an attack on Christian societies and/or our systems of Government probably says more about us, that it does about him, or what he said.

    I'm also not naive about the fact that certainly he knew the reaction he could expect - i.e. we're every bit as predictable as we'd accuse him of being. I mean heaven forbid he should say something at which we can't take offence.
     
  4. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The man nominally heads a government that supports terrorism, may even have been a terrorist himself, and has an abysmal human rights record. He's a hypocrite.

    If he wants the establishment of justice then maybe he should come clean about what he was doing from 1979-1981, and cease supporting religious assassination.
     
  5. Elmer Gantry

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    A couple of things to note.

    He speaks of "Prophets" in the plural, not singular. I think he is trying to point out that whether Muslim, Christian or Jew, we should all be thinking about what these guys said, instead of worrying about how to find the money for a Wii.

    The man might head a government that supports terrorism and may even be a terrorist himself. But I do warn about throwing those tags around inthis debate. Remember, one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

    Also, we should reflect on incidents like these (Troops free SAS men from jail) when considering the nature of terrorism in the Middle East.
     
  6. dreamer20

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    Your post's disparagement of "the media" is not fair as it has neither mocked the Western world, nor ridiculed Christians and Western democracies by its coverage of Ahmadinejad.

    Ahamdinejad's message was respectful of the prophets and didn't ridicule Christmas or Christianity as the cartoon which ridiculed the prophet Mohammed did.:rolleyes:
     
  7. Garth33

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    So lets KILL "the media" then all of our problems will be solved!:rolleyes:

    PS - My god can still beat up your god:tongue::tongue::tongue:

    PS2 - Excellent analysis of the speech Dong! This guy is trying to be "accepted as legitimate" by the Western World - don't forget that.
     
    #7 Garth33, Dec 26, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  8. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    I would not check that statement.
    Any claim that this will be true for any length of time is false, imo.
    We wake up for about four seconds every 24 years, though mileage may vary.

    Hey! What a blast I had at Christmas Dinner. Good peeps, good food, and lots of (slowly poured) alcohol. But lots of it.
     
  9. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    But the speech was exceptionally legitimate, don't you think?
    Very little too argue with if you forgot that Ahmadinejad had delivered it.
    So what difference does his delivery make?
    Seriously?
     
  10. D_Myer_Dogasflees

    D_Myer_Dogasflees New Member

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  11. dong20

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    As a statement of specifics, I'd agree with you, but as a statement of generality I wouldn't. I read this speech as very generalist.

    Throughout recorded history, regimes/cultures/empires or what you will, based or dependent upon the exploitation of another, and/or elements of themselves have tended to be overthrown or collapse - other than through the effluxion of time. It's happened more than once in the 20th Century. I suppose it also depends on how one defines ... tyrannical.

    Excellent! Thanks for your message, I have had a quiet Christmas for the first time in a very long while although today some relatives are coming over, so that may be about to change.
     
    #11 dong20, Dec 26, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  12. dong20

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    I suspect many of the comments that have been made or will be made about this, will be of bandwagon formulation. I didn't hear the speech so made a point of checking the text in full before opening my yap.

    A point that appears to have sailed far over the heads of some. Lampooning another's faith is a grey area, but if one must do it, one must expect the same in return. This faux outrage is as predictable as it is shallow.
     
  13. dong20

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    My main point exactly, this faux outrage is as predictable as it is shallow. As I suspect, it hits rather to close to home. The cynic in me knows that this was almost certainly the desired effect, but if we must take offence let it be at something more substantial than a Christmas address on TV?
     
  14. dong20

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    Of course, but can't that charge be laid rather at many of our doorsteps also? Have we not actively supported others who would be equally gulity of such a charge - and thus doesn't such an accusation make us hypocrytes?

    I think that's unlikely. We should be more worried about Pakistan than Iran, IMHO. At least in the short to medium term.

    I can't help but think we're playing right into his hands - assuming there is an ulterior motive to the speech.
     
  15. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Anything the US is guilty of does not excuse Iran's actions. Two wrongs...

    I agree with that completely. Again, however, it doesn't make Iran any less odious.
     
  16. Calboner

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    Now, now, be fair: the cartoons made the OUTRAGEOUS suggestion that Muslims are prone to acts of violence. :rolleyes:
     
  17. dong20

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    Of course not, but my counterpoint wasn't one of exoneration for Iran, but of hypocrisy by, among others, the US in making the allegation against it. Although I wasn't specifically referring to the US, if you feel the shoe fits ... :biggrin1:

    Nor does it make 'us' less so when making such an accusation based on 'our' record in recent years.

    I'm not seeking to defend Iran, here - merely to point out the pot and kettle element to many of the conventional arguments used against it.
     
  18. tripod

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    When you right wingers are called out on your bullshit you immediately try and smear the messenger by saying that they are somehow pro-Iran or are Iranian apologists. It is a pathetic tactic... and we are sick and tired of having to keep injecting disclaimers that we aren't pro-Iranian.

    It's that "You're either with us or against us" shit that is sooooo fucking played out and childish.

    Life ain't all fucking black and white people. Learn to develop some goddamn nuance, 'cause you hammers tend to see everything as a nail ready to be driven.
     
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