An Independent England

Discussion in 'Politics' started by tomthelad91, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. tomthelad91

    tomthelad91 New Member

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    It's a well known fact that England is richer than Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland.
    Its unemployment rate is lower - its education results better, its crime rates lower, its life expectancy higher.
    The English tax payer on average pays in more and takes out less from the Central pot than our celtic cousins.

    Cities like Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and Leeds are ignored, whilst the glorified towns of Cardiff, Edinburgh & Belfast have massive redevelopments, get public sector buildings built, in some cases tram systems, just because they happen to be capitals; at a nationwide cost.

    If England was independent, taxes would be lower due to the reduction in benefits. And the money saved from keeping Glaswegians alive past 50 could bring a benefit to us.

    Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are leeches - England keeps them propped up.

    What are people's views on this?
     
  2. darkhorse72

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    my personal view is although you have a great cock, you don't half talk some pish!
    lol
     
  3. uniquename

    uniquename New Member

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    i think we should all pool together and call ourselves something cool like
    the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
    maybe just the UK for short ?

    What a great thing that would be

    :D
     
  4. Qua

    Qua
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    Yes, well, I'm of the opinion the state of California and New York City should leave the US.
     
  5. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    sounds like the problem we're having -- massive influx from the failed policies of the liberal welfare States on either coasts (New York & California) flooding into the only State of the Union that had positive job growth during the last few years (Texas)

    secession and independence might be good idea for both England and Texas

     
  6. gtocrzy

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    I agree 100%
     
  7. 1kmb1

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    leeching off england? thats such a fucked up statement.

    at least they arent taking all your food to the point that your people are starving to death.
     
  8. Drifterwood

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    Pay for the fucking coal properly that built your shit, give us back the land you stole, then fuck off and die.

    If you have any balls, tell us how much you gave to the UK last year.
     
  9. Jason

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    We need to sort out the imbalances in our system. The circumstance where Scotland has more MPs than its population warrants and more than its fair proportion of expenditure is surely beyond defence. The West Lothian question needs solving - presumably through a Grand Council of England as a subset of parliament dealing with affairs which only affect England.

    What is on the cards is Scotland going its own way. NI cannot cut the link, or be cut off - there would be a blood bath. Wales is geographically too linked - if you drive from Cardiff to Holyhead you probably go up the English motorways.
     
  10. Jason

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    Leeching might not be a polite way to phrase it, but England raises more in taxes than it spends, while Scotland, Wales and NI raise less in taxes than they spend. England economically supports all three. Scotland is considerably assisted by the wealth generated by North Sea oil, most of which is landed in Scotland - yet still is a net beneficiary.

    This has been the situation for many years.
     
  11. Drifterwood

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    What you are all failing to factor in is our greatest export. People.

    London and other parts England suck in much of the talent. The geo-political and social structure of the UK makes this happen. Add back our people's contribution achieved in England and you will see a different picture.

    This draining of talent isn't just a problem for the Celtic Nations, many parts of the North of England face similar problems.

    Anyway - what do you want to pay for water?
     
  12. tomthelad91

    tomthelad91 New Member

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    I really don't understand Northern Irish unionists. They feel affection for a country which feels no affection to them.
    Most British people consider it Irish, they call them 'Irish', and want Britain to forget about it. It costs us a lot to keep them all on the dole and to keep their car bombs diffused. Only 26% of British people in a recent poll want Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK. 56% want it given back to Ireland.
    The UK effectively is occupying part of a country and getting away with it.

    Scotland, the SNP support shows there is considerable support for independence; but they assume that they'd have total access to oil.
    It was English money which was used to access that Oil - the deepest in the world. It cost millions to get at that.
    If scotland did get the oil. England would just veto any application to the EU, impose tariffs and bar immigration, crippling the Scottish economy - Hence, Scotland isn't a viable country.

    Wales is less of an issue. Wales is very much tied to England culturally and of course geographically, as well as historically being joined to England for longer than the other two nations.

    English people aren't aware of these problems, and aren't really aware they're being fiddled.

    Some other examples I can think of. Belgium. Flanders (Dutch Speaking Belgium) massively supports Wallonia (French Speaking Belgium). Wallonia has a much higher unemployment rate and an independent Flanders would be much richer.
    In Canada if Québec were to break off, the rest of Canada would be better off as Québec contributes less and takes more from the Federal economy than the Western Provinces. In America States like California, Arizona, Oregon, Washington and Nevada are much more prosperous, and contribute more to the economy, and hence pays to prop up poorer states like West Virginia.
     
  13. Drifterwood

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    The clue is in the title "discussion" forum.

    But it's OK if you just want to mouth off your half witted opinions.

    PS - there are plenty of parts of the West Midlands that are hardly net contributors.

    PPS - I am off for a shit in Lake Vyrnwy. :biggrin1:
     
    #13 Drifterwood, Feb 11, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  14. dandelion

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    I thought England bought Scotland. The price was a big pile of money and 100 seats in the westminster parliament. That's why they have a disproportionately high representation, because that was the agreed price. If the deal is off now then the whole contract will have to go into arbitration to figure ought just how much money is owed to the Scots which the English have appropriated over the years. All the money for exploiting oil was paid out of the proceeds of selling it.

    But the reason the English wanted to buy and the reason the Scots agreed to sell was because both sides realised that a bigger country is always better than a smaller one.
     
  15. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Balls.
    Canada would be infinitely poorer in many ways without Québec.
    A country is not just a financial arrangement.
     
  16. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I have been thinking about this thread because i was umming and ahhring about how i feel on the issue but i think this statement somes it up the best.
     
  17. Jason

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    Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK. This position is fully recognised by Ireland and all other nations. At elections a majority of people in NI consistently vote DUP or UUP, the two parties that have membership of the UK as their key policy. Other possible solutions - an independent NI or NI joining Ireland - would lead to a blood bath. While Sinn Fein campaigns for "reunification" and gets a significant minority of the NI vote, there is no likelihood of this happening. Much of the opposition to a united Ireland would now come from the government of Ireland that could not hope to deal with the problems that would result.

    England, Wales and NI are going to stay together. There has been discussion about Scotland going its own way, but the tide has now turned against this. The examples of Ireland and Iceland and the knowledge of the extent of the recent UK bailout of Scottish banks has changed the mood. Problems in the Eurozone will further discourage independence. It seems most likely that Scotland will remain part of the UK. This is a tidy solution.

    A point that seems relevant is that English ignorance of Scotland, Wales and NI is truly shocking. One of the key events in UK history which has shaped our nation and our faith is the Seige of Derry. This is part of the protestant iconography of NI but it is also a pivotal event in UK and even English history (we hear every year on the news about the Londonderry apprentice boys) though I doubt one person in a hundred in England could give an account of what happened at the seige. Curiously the Scots remember, maybe the Welsh, but not the English. There is a culturally remarkable clip on youtube of Scottish football fans in Athens singing about this Irish Seige. At least the billy boys know something of their nation's heritage:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OITh-CnMcQc

    Or a version where you can actually hear the words:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUCFS50WpQM
     
  18. Jason

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    Brilliant!
     
  19. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    the op is alittle misguided in his anger. Would these splits really make a difference to the trillions of pounds debt we are in?

    What makes me laugh about this post is that the OP's thread makes me think of somone who would also argue that "we once owned 1/3 of the world" in a pub and is complaining about our past imperialism!

    In my opinion, we need to pull together. This should be a time where the peoples of both Wales, Scotland and N.I become closer. Im all for the rivalries we have in sport, but we should be linking together and fighting our struggles together politically. We are all being fucked by the government and the EU, we are face the same cuts that will brutilise our public services....


    Then again what do i know?
     
  20. B_nyvin

    B_nyvin New Member

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    That's an absurd notion. The reason Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland don't raise as much in taxes is because most of the country's overall production is concentrated in the south east. Rich people go to the south east, bussinesses go to the southeast. Just like Rich people and bussinesses go to LA and New York.

    Scotland provides fossil fuels too, so that's important to remember when you talk about independence.
     
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