An Independent England
- Thread starter tomthelad91
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English people don't tend to hate the Germans as a rule,it's more a jokey thing,but I agree that the Scots seriously do need to get a grip on their hatred for the English.It's almost as ugly as that whole Celtic/Rangers thing, which is no joke!!
D_Andreas Sukov
Account Disabled
I cant see any split happening any time soon. And Jason, do you honestly believe that a priority of a re-elevted Labour Party will be to move closer towards independance of Scotland and Wales?
I highly doubt it.
I highly doubt it.
where do you get this hatred for english by scots. and as for english hatred being jokey to germans. fuk me you have blew them up twice. well thats freinds for you. dont you understand scottish humor? once again scotland does not hate english people its the system of westminster rule.and when i visit englandshire they wont take my rbs bank money so who dislikes who? really have you been to scotland superbot ?
Hockeytiger
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I'm not sure he's arguing that it would be a priority as much as a net result of various policies.
In the end however, it is all academic, at least for the next 50 years or so. No one has the balls to actually do it. It makes great rhetoric, especially for the various nationalists. But it just doesn't make real sense.
Drifterwood
Superior Member
Wales could become a tax haven, and all Welsh people working in England would have the right to pay their income tax to Wales first.
PS - I hvae no more issue with Germans than anyone else.
PS - I hvae no more issue with Germans than anyone else.
Do you SERIOUSLY think that the English SHOULD hate the Germans because of the last war?,well actually to our credit we don't by and large.As for the Scots hating Westminster,well why should they when they get more out of it then the English.After all,amongst other things the Scots don't pay for their higher education as do the English,which clearly hasn't benefitted you as your spelling and grammar is all over the place!!!!! and yes I have been to Scotland..........ONCE!!!!
jings handbags at twenty paces about the spelling. so you dont seem to think there is an anti german feeling in england [thats sarcasm just incase you dont get it]. the education system in scotland is payed for by the scottish parliament. as for westminster paying out more to scotland please check up to date stats. you will find scotland is paying its own way and could do considerably better without the burden and waste of westminster and whitehall. ps sorry in advance for the punctuation
Er,university education in Scotland is free, in the rest of the UK it's it has to be funded by the students themselves, courtesy of central government(Westminster) which in effect mean Scottish students are subsidised.If you think that Scotland could survive without the powerhouse of England behind,then good luck on that one cos your taxation will go through the roof to fund it!!
without the powerhouse of england. yes scotland could survive. 2007 scotland received a grant of 25 billion. scottish exports 20.6 billion and take into account all other taxes you might find england to be worse of after independence. p.s. source of info uk government. i think the only way the union could stay together would be for england and wales to have there independent parliaments and an overall government for national and security issues. if government was more local mps would be more accountable to the people they serve and represent. and the big white elephant whitehall would be downsized drastic.
Tourism,Whisky and rapidly disappearing oil reserves ain't gonna sustain yer,not by a long way.If you're talking about grants etc look how Ireland faired with it's hand-out's from the EU!!! England's contribution to the UK economy is ENORMOUS!!!
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Right now I doubt if we are going to get as far as a vote on Scottish independence. Labour knows that an independent Scotland weakens Labour in Westminster. The Conservatives are the party of the Union - though they might go for a vote if confident that Scotland will vote no and put the issue to bed for another generation. SNP are the big losers in a vote where Scotland says no to independence.
If we do get as far as considering an independent Scotland then the financial position will have to be spelt out prior to the vote. The UN would probably be involved as it would be seen as impartial. The basic idea is that a Scottish balance sheet would be drawn up with Scottish assets and liabilities on it. The liabilities include the bailouts to RBS and other financial institutions that have their headquarters in Edinburgh (100% of the responsibility goes to the country where the headquarters are). Sea frontiers would also be a matter for a solution in international law - and Scotland would not get anything like the frontiers most Scots would like. The oil and gas belongs to the country in whose seas it is found (not the country where it is landed). At present Scotland is a net beneficiary of UK finances - the total public expenditure in Scotland is greater than the total of taxation, a very simple calculation. Basically an independent Scotland would be in the mess Ireland is now in or worse, a circumstance that would be made plain by the UN, and a reality which trumps the figures produced by SNP.
The other big issue is EU membership. The EU is about centralising - we are fast moving to a position where the nation states cease to be sovereign. The idea of a territory breaking away from a present EU nation but remaining part of the EU just doesn't have any point in EU logic. Given that more and more decisions are taken in Brussels what difference does it make whether the vestigal regional government (with fast diminishing powers) is based in London or Edinburgh? EU law says a breakaway region needs to reapply for membership, and it would take agreement of the 27 to remove this requirement. Spain has said she would veto.
The arguments are overwhelming. Right now Scottish independence is just not going to happen.
We're left with a UK where Scotland isn't going to leave. NI really cannot leave (blood bath would result). There is no settled view that Wales should become independent (indeed it was only by a whisker that the Welsh voted for their national assembly). And for that matter England cannot leave - the English would be held responsible for the financial wreck in Scotland, the blood bath in NI and the volume of the choirs in Wales. Basically England would be the villain on the world stage.
The interesting ones right now are the Channel Islands and Isle of Man. What happens to them?
If we do get as far as considering an independent Scotland then the financial position will have to be spelt out prior to the vote. The UN would probably be involved as it would be seen as impartial. The basic idea is that a Scottish balance sheet would be drawn up with Scottish assets and liabilities on it. The liabilities include the bailouts to RBS and other financial institutions that have their headquarters in Edinburgh (100% of the responsibility goes to the country where the headquarters are). Sea frontiers would also be a matter for a solution in international law - and Scotland would not get anything like the frontiers most Scots would like. The oil and gas belongs to the country in whose seas it is found (not the country where it is landed). At present Scotland is a net beneficiary of UK finances - the total public expenditure in Scotland is greater than the total of taxation, a very simple calculation. Basically an independent Scotland would be in the mess Ireland is now in or worse, a circumstance that would be made plain by the UN, and a reality which trumps the figures produced by SNP.
The other big issue is EU membership. The EU is about centralising - we are fast moving to a position where the nation states cease to be sovereign. The idea of a territory breaking away from a present EU nation but remaining part of the EU just doesn't have any point in EU logic. Given that more and more decisions are taken in Brussels what difference does it make whether the vestigal regional government (with fast diminishing powers) is based in London or Edinburgh? EU law says a breakaway region needs to reapply for membership, and it would take agreement of the 27 to remove this requirement. Spain has said she would veto.
The arguments are overwhelming. Right now Scottish independence is just not going to happen.
We're left with a UK where Scotland isn't going to leave. NI really cannot leave (blood bath would result). There is no settled view that Wales should become independent (indeed it was only by a whisker that the Welsh voted for their national assembly). And for that matter England cannot leave - the English would be held responsible for the financial wreck in Scotland, the blood bath in NI and the volume of the choirs in Wales. Basically England would be the villain on the world stage.
The interesting ones right now are the Channel Islands and Isle of Man. What happens to them?
please check deep water reserves in the atlantic. but there are more exports other than just oil. as for rbs what about all the other bungling banks who pays for them.
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In the end the assets and liabilities of Scotland would be calculated under UN guidance, so it would be an independent figure. The dangerous fiction pedalled by SNP (as on BBC's "Hard Talk" a few minutes ago) would be shown to be the utter rubbish it is. SNP shows deep contempt for the people of Scotland in telling their lies.
The RBS and Lloyds/HBOS liability alone is £37bn, both registered in Edinburgh. This is about £600 for every citizen of the UK - and roughly ten times that for every citizen of Scotland if the whole debt is carried by Scotland, as it would be if Scotland goes its own way. Scotland would also have a proportional share of most UK debts.
North Sea oil and gas are running out, whatever proportion might attach to Scotland (and it is not all that much). Atlantic fishing is not a major earner. I would love to think there might be Atlantic oil around Rockall, but if there is, exploitation is decades in the future. Scotland has industry and resources, but not anything like as great as SNP are claiming. By contrast the biggest single asset of the UK is the City of London - the square mile contributes about 12% of the UK GDP.
If the UN draw up a balance sheet for Scotland it will demonstrate that independence is scarcely possible. Were Scotland to go its own way it would immediately be in the hands of the IMF. A pound Scots decoupled from sterling would fall sharply. There would be an austerity programme, at least as great as Ireland's 12% cut in public sector spending. There would be tax hikes. Basically it is too ghastly, and just won't happen.
I do feel that the Scottish people have an absolute right to self determination. But they would be making the decision on the basis of figures produced by the UN and would be voting for a sharp drop in living standards. It just won't happen.
PS - bluntly Asby de la Zouch has more chance of independence.
The RBS and Lloyds/HBOS liability alone is £37bn, both registered in Edinburgh. This is about £600 for every citizen of the UK - and roughly ten times that for every citizen of Scotland if the whole debt is carried by Scotland, as it would be if Scotland goes its own way. Scotland would also have a proportional share of most UK debts.
North Sea oil and gas are running out, whatever proportion might attach to Scotland (and it is not all that much). Atlantic fishing is not a major earner. I would love to think there might be Atlantic oil around Rockall, but if there is, exploitation is decades in the future. Scotland has industry and resources, but not anything like as great as SNP are claiming. By contrast the biggest single asset of the UK is the City of London - the square mile contributes about 12% of the UK GDP.
If the UN draw up a balance sheet for Scotland it will demonstrate that independence is scarcely possible. Were Scotland to go its own way it would immediately be in the hands of the IMF. A pound Scots decoupled from sterling would fall sharply. There would be an austerity programme, at least as great as Ireland's 12% cut in public sector spending. There would be tax hikes. Basically it is too ghastly, and just won't happen.
I do feel that the Scottish people have an absolute right to self determination. But they would be making the decision on the basis of figures produced by the UN and would be voting for a sharp drop in living standards. It just won't happen.
PS - bluntly Asby de la Zouch has more chance of independence.
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