An old Indian Saying about humans...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Flashy, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Flashy

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    There is an indian legend that states that all humans when they die, will have to face every animal that they have known in their lives and have those animals pass judgment on the person.

    What would all the animals you have known (not the ones you have eaten, since you did not know them, unless you lived on a farm knew them and then killed them)

    say about you?

    try and list all the pets you have had, or pets of your friends that knew you, or horses you used to ride, birds you had, a stray you found etc.

    All the animals you have known...what would they say about how you treated them and what they would say about you as a human and how much you may have meant to them or how they felt about you?

    Were you good to them? How much time did you take with them? How loving you were etc?
     
  2. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    I can think of a whole lot of animals that would speak highly of me. I even carry a bag of dog treats and feed over a dozen dogs a vitamin and mineral fortifide treat every day. Some of the dogs have healthier coats since they started getting their treats.

    I find animals to be more true than humans.
     
  3. Flashy

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    Many dogs would speak very highly of me. They adore me and i adore them. They are my favorite creatures on this planet.

    Cats not as much, because they tend to be self-absorbed and assholish. But they would say i was nice to them even though they remained decidedly cool in their typical way.

    I had a stray cat when i was younger who lived outside of our house but we took care of her, she lived in our house half the time, but she preferred the outdoors and she would speak well of me.

    a few ducks would have nice things to say as well...

    fish, not so much.
     
  4. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    I am not a cat person but I treat them kindly. I had fish for 21 years, and they lived a decent life. Birds love me. I have even had them land on me. They follow me around, and join me in song when I am whistling or singing. I don't like snakes, gators or spiders but I don't bother them if they don't bother me.
     
  5. marleyisalegend

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    God how I wish you applied this philosphy to people.
     
  6. ZOS23xy

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    You mean, how you wish all people applied this philosophy to other.
     
  7. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    Marley, I love having you on ignore. I know it's almost automatic that you are going to make a snippy remark to anything I post. :biggrin1:
     
  8. Not_Punny

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    Be nice to hootie!!!!

    He's only of the animals that is going to judge you!! :biggrin: (Well, his avatar is one of the animals that is going to judge you)
     
  9. marleyisalegend

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    Huh? What I meant was I'd have liked him to have left me alone when I wasn't bothering him, but apparently he only applies "live and let live" to animals.

    Anywho, I had two Madagascar rainbow lizards, I had a mouse, fish, and two dogs, and they'll all tell you the same thing my teachers told me. I don't think they'd have anything bad to say about me, I think this concept applies better to people who mistreat animals, other than that, most of us probably would get good testimony from animals.
     
  10. invisibleman

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    I wonder if animals judge each other for what they do to each other first...
    before they judge what other species do to them. --a Brokebacko Indyun saying

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    Probably not. So many of them tend to be more vicious about survival of the species than humans do.

    I like the intimacy and shared platonic grooming that other primates perform on each other. I'd like someone nice to come rub my back and pretend it's covered hair so they can look for fleas.
     
  12. ConnerM360

    ConnerM360 Active Member

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    This is a thought that saddens me. I have had one pet and that was my dog buddy as a kid. He was mistreated by me and my brother we never did anything cruel but just didnt show the dog love like any animal should get. I fear he would not say good things about me. If only i could have him back now as I am much more mature.
     
  13. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    Aww I am sorry man. Maybe, you can make up for it by being nice to animals now? I can't have my own pets anymore. I am allergic to most types of animals. So, I spoil all the ones I encounter while out and about. I really like frogs but don't carry bugs to feed them.
     
  14. ActionBuddy

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    Apparently, this thread will now only be all about Marley, as usual... so, I will bag out.

    Hmmm... but I did want to ask the OP if his statement was about the incredibly varied cultures of the Nations of North American "Indians" or was it about the many varied cultures of the people of "sub-continent" of India?

    Does anyone else here look at maps or give a shit about history?...

    And do you really want to divulge yourself as someone who does not care about the well being of other species?

    Go for it, if that is who you really are. We might as well know the truth.
     
    #14 ActionBuddy, Aug 14, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
  15. Flashy

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    that's why i asked it. my first dog was a family dog...i was very young, perhaps eight when we got her...and i loved her alot but did not understand "mistreatment" at that age...and while i was never cruel, i probably could have been a great pest, and to her credit, being a very sweet hearted golden retriever, she tolerated me, though our relationship when i was young led her to keep a bit of distance from me, though she adored my parents and really became "their" dog, even though she was bought to be my dog...it always hurt me that she wound up liking them more than me...as i got older and went away to school, I began to appreciate her more, she was always very affectionate towards me in later life, as i had learned alot after having grown up etc...and i like to think that she "forgave" me for me being a typical little asshole to her, doing lots of dumb things...in many ways, she showed more wisdom in her older doggy years, to her credit, than i as a human had done as a younger person.

    i realized how lucky i was to have had her as a part of my life.

    3 months after she passed away I got another golden...at age 23 i was so much different and so much more appreciative...and knowing this, went about becoming the best dog owner i could be...and predictably, she adored and worshipped me and me her in return. I was very fortunate, how much that first dog taught me, and the love and companionship that allowed me to have with the second was the greatest gift the first dog gave me.

    It was almost as if she had "prepared" me for the next dog. As a result, i wound up adoring the second dog, more than I ever did the first, but i always appreciate the fact that never could have happened without learning with the first one.

    So, in short Conner, your story is what i was hoping to hear in this thread, and I am glad you said it.

    i am sure if you bought a dog now, it would be a very rewarding experience for you both as the second time was for me in a similar situation. :smile:
     
  16. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    If you ever pass through Abilene Texas, stop at their Frontier Texas Museum. They have a nice show about the frontier, the maps, and what was done to the Commanche and other indigenous people in the area.

    Oh after viewing their program, go on down the road to an old train station. It has a chocolate shop called Vileta's. Good stuff, and they even have almost posterboard thin peanut brittle.
     
  17. Flashy

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    Since i did not know what nation of peoples here in the USA the old legend came from I said "Indians" in general. Not Indians from the Indian sub-continent.

    I look at maps plenty and can actively discuss the history of the Great Plains Indians and particularly the conflicts of the Indian Wars in staggering depth with you if you would like...

    but frankly, I think you are overreacting. If i had known what nation or sub-nation or tribe of American Indians the legend had come from i would have used that. But i did not. So i used Indian. I will not use the words "Native American", which is an idiotic term. By definition, anyone born in a country is native to that country.

    i will use Lakota, Cheyenne, Nez Perce, Crow, Shoshone, Arapaho, Cree, Kiowa, Seminole, Apache, Navajo, Cherokee, Comanche etc. But I absolutely will not use Native American, if that is what you were angling for me to use.

    A "native" american is no more native to this country then I am. They were born here, i was born here.

    This is a topic about Animals. Kindly leave the nonsense out of it.
     
  18. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I truly don't know.

    When I was young I was very mean to a few animals, taking simple pleasure in being able to beat-up something that couldn't fight back. Now that I'm older and allegedly wiser, I'm horrified by what I did because I do love animals and I understand why I did it.

    I remember a few times when I was nearly psychotic with rage and took it out on my dog only to lose him two years later to cancer at the age of three. How that dog could ever forgive me I don't know, but he did. On the day he was euthanized due to terminal cancer, my mother called me at work and said he was now in pain and that she called the vet. She told me that the vet was on his way and that I wouldn't have to be there.

    It was the first time I ever put my foot down with my mother and I told her in no uncertain terms that the dog was my property and that nothing was to be done until I got there. I brought this dog home, he was my only source of wholly and completely devoted love through two psych hospitalizations for depression, and that I owed it to him to be there when he died. I left work early and drove home listening Judy Collins singing Amazing Grace on repeat on my tape deck. I begged the spirits of my great grandparents to take care of him until I could again, and I drove home in a cloud of tears. Dear god in heaven I loved Tristan like I have loved no other animal. I came home and he was in pain. I could see that. I beat the vet too. Seeing him hurt me but I stayed calm and strong knowing he would need it. I took him around back behind the house and my mother tried to stop me fearing the walk would hurt him but I shouted at her, "Don't say a word. Nothing is decided unless I decide it." She was aghast that I would countermand her like that and she began babbling about how the doctors said this and that and everything else. She had decided and that was that, reminding me how she drove my dog 70 miles into New York for surgeries and chemotherapy at the finest animal hospital in the world at enormous cost. It didn't matter. Tristan was my dog and as his life was my responsibility, I would decide if this was the time to end it or not. I sat down next to Tristan, away from everyone and talked to him. He had stopped eating that morning and the look on his face just told me everything. I promised him I would stay with him until the end and my great grandparents would take care of him in the other world. He just licked my face, again, always concerned about me.

    The vet came, I held him in my lap, and he passed away gently and quickly. I stroked his hair, whispered to him, and just offered every comfort I could just as when I took him home for the first time as a puppy.

    I am always completely astonished at the capacity of that dog's grace. I didn't deserve him, I didn't spend as much time as I could with him, I didn't always treat him as a life that had only me to depend upon and to this day I feel a pain in my chest when I think of it and then remind myself that he forgave me all that for what little love I could give him.

    If there is a heaven, then when I die, he's the very first thing I want to see. I said it then, over 15 years ago, and I still say it now. I hope to say it until the day I die.

    Today I have two wonderful dogs whom I adore and have treated far better than I ever did Tristan. I got two dogs because I don't think I could stand to tolerate the death of one without having another to console me. That's the very real, and perhaps, selfish reason, but I couldn't think of having another dog until just two years ago; the pain of the loss, and my own failings as a dog owner, were too great.

    I still have Tristan's collar and it's kept in a special wooden jewelry box I inherited from my grandfather. It has a picture of my beloved great aunt, a flower from my grandfather's funeral, and one or two other special things. On occasion I take it out and hold it, feeling its smoothness from his oily coat (he was part Chesapeake, part yellow lab), smelling just a faint whiff of his scent, and knowing that short of a grave in the side field at my mom's house, it's all I have left beyond the memories.

    Though I won't deserve it, I know Tristan will give me a pass.
     
    #18 jason_els, Aug 14, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
  19. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    Man I just remembered this demented girl who would catch frogs, pull off their hind legs, put them in jars of hot water, and watch them struggle to get out. What a whack job. That whole family was mean.
     
  20. Flashy

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    I could not have said that better myself Jason,...you stated very eloquently how i felt about my first dog...

    The forgiveness i received too was rather amazing...I had a similar experience as you about "taking simple pleasure in being able to beat-up something that couldn't fight back" ...although i was fortunate to be young and not cause any physical pain, or lasting damage, much of what i did had to do with feeling helpless and being picked on and abused by a parent.

    When you are young and helpless and are being hurt, sadly, the natural reaction is to take it out on something that is as helpless as you are/feel.

    When i made the connection as i grew up, that is what changed me completely, and i have always looked at my second dog as my "second chance" to do everything right.

    A very honest and well thought out post, jason, thanks for sharing it.
     
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