Ancient Script Says Jesus Asked Judas to Betray Him

JustAsking

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Love-it said:
No good comes from arguing about religion. Live it and/or leave it alone.

Love-it,
But part of "living it" is to spread the word. Its called The Great Commission, where Jesus says, "Go forth and make disciples of all nations."

Thats a great irony (among so many other religious ironies) and a great tragedy/comedy of the human condition. That in our zeal to spread the Gospel (which is the Good News that nothing can separate you from the love of God) we beat the crap out of each other and even go to war over it.

It reminds me of that famous line from the American General during the Viet-Nam war who reported: "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." (Was that true or was it just a line from the movie Full Metal Jacket?).

Its still a mystery to me why Jesus put us in charge of this on his way out.

JustAsking
 

ben11

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The challenge is to make sure the message isn't garbled or twisted Unfortunately, history has too many examples of how leaders religious and otherwise have used the "message" to push forth their agenda.
 

solong

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ben11 said:
I do find it so fascinating how all societies search to understand why we are here. I doubt my dog or the coyote who has been howling down the hill from my house spend much time pondering those things. Though I struggle with the faith thing, I also struggle with understanding how we were able to make such an amazing jump from other living things.

Ben11, It's obvious why you struggle with the faith thing. Most people have decided long ago to have their own faith. Only people who don't trust their own understanding would "struggle" with the faith thing. In this, you are 100% right.

Suggestion: read the Bible. Stop letting people tell you what it says and don't let them tell you that unless you have a seminary education you must have a minister explain it, or else.

If you suprisingly inherited the deed to a vast property but had never seen the property-- all you knew was that it was legal and it belonged to you free and clear, would you believe? Why would you believe? Because you had the deed to that property in your hot little hands, right? Of course.

On the other hand, suppose some con-artist told you that he had a bridge to sell. You pay him so-much, and the deed is yours.

Now I ask you, what's the difference?

Well, it's obvious. The deed to the first one was not solicited. The deed to the second was.

Why don't you stop a minute and get really honest with yourself.

If you were a Marine in a battle with the enemy, alongside other Marines, you would have to trust them with your life and they would trust you. Right? Why do you have faith in your fellow Marines? What is so solid that you would trust them with your life?

Now you are asking, "I don't see any connection between either example." But, I think you really will. The one common fact between both is, you can only have faith in something that you have proved beyond any shadow of a doubt. God doesn't ask you to do any less. Prove it first, and then trust in what you have proven.

That's why you have to first READ what he says, and stop taking people's word about it.
 

JustAsking

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ben11 said:
Though much of the gospel was written 30 to 70 years after Christ died, that was still plenty of time for stories about his life to evolve pretty far away from reality. Just think about all the books that have come out that revisit the founders of this country. Ben Franking could be an ass and was a womanizer. Jefferson had a black slave for a mistress, Lincoln may have suffered from severe depression, and George really didn't chop down a cherry tree.

ben11,
I see your point. As we began to developed our young nation's legends about our founding fathers (Cherry trees, cannot tell a lie, etc), we whitewashed them into some kind of quasi demigods of virtue and ignored their flaws. Now that enough time has passed, we are writing more realistic historical accounts of them and finding them to be very human and not so demigodly at all.

I think your point is that the authors of the New Testament, some 50 years after Jesus' death may have been doing the same kind of demigod making. You could also argue that it is too late to dig up much dirt on the guy (short of a few manuscripts we discover from time to time), so he will go on being the demigod of Biblical legend.

Here is the rub, though. If you were going to embellish the account of a man whom you claimed was the son of the creator of the universe, and further that he was also the creator himself, you would have written a very different story. Wouldn't you have been tempted to put in a few miracles that were more than simple parlor tricks (compared to creating the universe, anyway). Don't forget that at the time, the people of Jerusalem had been conquered by anyone with a horse and chariot in the hundreds of years before Christ, they were under Roman domination and were expecting a really kick-ass savior to come along and bring some good ol' Old Testament Godlike wrath and judgement on their enemies and make things right.

(In fact, in regard to solong's point about studying the Bible without anyone else's help, chances are you will only invent the God you want, and he will probably be a kick-ass God.)

But no, what they got was a helpless baby who grew up to walk around like a homeless guy telling everyone to just give away their money, be meek and childlike, and then allow himself to be carried away and nailed to a tree to die a miserable death. In the runup to that event, he is full of doubt and seems to be somewhat afraid of what is going to happen.

My point is that if you were in the first century church's marketing department and asked to put a really good spin on this Jesus guy, you would be fired for telling this particular story.

In fact, in the Koran, they did rewrite the story, because they considered it absurd that Jesus would just allow himself to be nailed to a board. (and it IS absurd, which is my point) So in their version, he comes down off the cross and kicks some butt. Now thats a demigod!

Anyway, thanks for bringing that up. I have been thinking about this recently, so you caught me with a lot of words about it.

JustAsking
 

JustAsking

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ben11 said:
The challenge is to make sure the message isn't garbled or twisted Unfortunately, history has too many examples of how leaders religious and otherwise have used the "message" to push forth their agenda.

Yes, you nailed it.
 

Love-it

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JustAsking said:
Love-it,
But part of "living it" is to spread the word. Its called The Great Commission, where Jesus says, "Go forth and make disciples of all nations." ... we beat the crap out of each other and even go to war over it.
JustAsking

Like I said, live it and leave it alone.

But everyone seeks validation by conversion. "I must be right because I just converted another person."

The assumption: the more people agree with you the more right you are. It fits all religions, big or small and all theories. Religions gain strength in numbers whether it is for political, financial and/or fanatical purposes. And it is the reason that all religions proselytize.

Why are born agains so upset that their children might be exposed to other religions in the land of the free or that their children might not be continually exposed to born again beliefs in all aspects of their lives? They seem to live in fear that their beliefs might be challenged and be found short of acceptable?

The above lines fit any and all religions, sects and "believers" whether big or small.

It is extremely rare to find a person without prejudice. And the last test question for those rare individuals is "Can you accept a family member changing their religious belief, without question?: