And we are told animals are not sentient

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

I found this story and picture very moving and personally think it debunks the garbage we are told that animals lack sentience.

The picture & the story

The Story Behind Our Photo of Grieving Chimps|Earth to Bobby


BLESSED BE

 

[dreamer20]

sentient = having the power of sense perception.

Who told you that animals weren't sentient?

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings and therefore try to teach us this. :bsflag:

I think it's done so to assuage their guilt for the heartless things they do to them all in the name of science :frown1::frown1::frown1:

HORSE

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings and therefore try to teach us this.

In terms of vertebrates, I think you are dead wrong on this point. I believe it is pretty much scientific consensus that these animals can percieve their environment and feel pain and distress.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

Isn't it self awareness we're told animals don't have?

 

[D_Kissimmee Coldsore]

Yeah, it's self-awareness. Even humans don't have that until around 18-24 months of age, so it's not ridiculous at all. On top of that Chimpanzees and Orangutans are considered to certainly have self-awareness. Gorillas, elephants and cetaceans may also.

 

[NoFear]

Think I would toss in whales and dolphins... frankly I think a lot of animals are not that far from humans in the basic emotional since (fear, pain, dare I say love, joy), but that wont stop me from enjoying my next steak.

That being said .. being cruel to animals just to be cruel is wrong imho dog fighting ect.

 

[dreamer20]

Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to perceive what is going on in their surroundings and therefore try to teach us this.

HORSE

In terms of vertebrates, ...you are dead wrong on this point... these animals can perceive their environment and feel pain and distress.

^^What he said.

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

In terms of vertebrates, I think you are dead wrong on this point. I believe it is pretty much scientific consensus that these animals can percieve their environment and feel pain and distress.

This is simply NOT TRUE but the recent event with Dorothy the chimpanzee is making scienctists question how much they feel and how aware they are and if they act consciously !
This is indicative of mans inherrent arrogance and the way they place human lives over those of animals.
Funny how according to the Bible Man was made first in the image of GOD and then the animals yet we know this is bullshit since science has proven that animals were on this planet millions of yrs before humans !
Who really is the lesser aware species on this planet ? The one bringing it closer to the brink of destruction through greed and arrogance or the ones who roam it gently and leave little if any mark upon this beautiful place !

HORSE

 

[HUNGHUGE11X7]

Isn't it self awareness we're told animals don't have?

That has been long standing belief which is such crap and again b/c of the astounding events with Dorothy they are now scratching their heads . The scientific community has long held the belief that what separates us from animals is the ability to reason. Even my own half bro who is a nuclear physicist thinks animals are just animals nothing more, no feeling , no consciousness. He is sooooo Pro animal testing it is sickening whereas I support ZERO animal testing.

Before anyone asks me this stupid as question , NO I WOULD NOT SUPPORT ANIMAL TESTING EVEN IF IT MEANT SAVING MY LIFE !

HORSE

 

[Catchoftheday]

Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings and therefore try to teach us this.

HORSE

Please could you give us an example of one of these scienists

 

[Calboner]

we are told that animals lack sentience.

Told so by whom?

Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings and therefore try to teach us this.

I know of exactly one scientist who has propounded such a view: René Descartes. He died more than 350 years ago, and even in his own day very few people accepted his views. They have not grown more popular since then.

You are boxing with ghosts.

 

[tripod]

I think that he means that Christianity dictates that animals are not sentient.

Plus sentience has been traditionally known as being human.

Sentience is also usually used in parallel with self awareness and consciousness. Additionally, it is often confused with the term sapience which is another word for wisdom.

Give the OP a break, he is trying to make a point, not argue about the actual meaning of the word sentient... it means different things to different people and as a word is generally poorly understood by current human thought.

In Buddhism, I was taught to honor all sentient beings which in that application meant any "living" creature.

I saw the pic yesterday with my family and we were trippin' on how some of them had expressions that are similar to humans. Cool as hell.

 

[Calboner]

I think that he means that Christianity dictates that animals are not sentient.

Plus sentience has been traditionally known as being human.

Sentience is also usually used in parallel with self awareness and consciousness. Additionally, it is often confused with the term sapience which is another word for wisdom.

Give the OP a break, he is trying to make a point, not argue about the actual meaning of the word sentient... it means different things to different people and as a word is generally poorly understood by current human thought.

What you mean is that not everyone who uses the word knows what it means. "Sentient" comes from the Latin "sentire," which means "to feel" or "to sense." Hence, to be sentient is to be capable of sensing or feeling. Nobody who knows what the word means can confuse it with self-awareness or sapience. Here are all the glosses in the Oxford English Dictionary:

A. adj. 1. That feels or is capable of feeling; having the power or function of sensation or of perception by the senses.
b. Conscious or percipient of something.
2. Phys. Of organs or tissues: Responsive to sensory stimuli.
3. Characterized by the exercise of the senses.
B. a. absol. That which has sensation or feeling. b. n. One who or something which has sensation.

Anyway, Hung's confusions are not just verbal. He says that "Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings." "Ability to perceive what is going on in their environment" would describe sentience, which does not require or imply reasoning ability. No scientist competent to investigate animal behavior can possibly believe that animals lack the ability to perceive what is going on in their environment.

 

[dreamer20]

Funny how according to the Bible Man was made first in the image of GOD and then the animals yet we know this is bullshit since science has proven that animals were on this planet millions of yrs before humans !
Who really is the lesser aware species on this planet ?
HORSE

I think that he means that Christianity dictates that animals are not sentient...
Plus sentience has been traditionally known as being human.
In Buddhism, I was taught to honor all sentient beings which in that application meant any "living" creature.

I saw the pic yesterday with my family and we were trippin' on how some of them had expressions that are similar to humans. Cool as hell.

Hung Genesis states that man was not the first living creature created. All other animals were created before him. The ancients who told Genesis' creation story were aware that animals were sentient and Christianity does not dictate otherwise tripod:

What you mean is that not everyone who uses the word knows what it means. "Sentient" comes from the Latin "sentire," which means "to feel" or "to sense." Hence, to be sentient is to be capable of sensing or feeling. Nobody who knows what the word means can confuse it with self-awareness or sapience. Here are all the glosses in the Oxford English Dictionary:

sentient = having the power of sense perception.

Anyway, Hung's confusions are not just verbal. He says that "Most scientists think animals lack reasoning and the ability to percieve what is going on in their surroundings." "Ability to perceive what is going on in their environment" would describe sentience, which does not require or imply reasoning ability. No scientist competent to investigate animal behavior can possibly believe that animals lack the ability to perceive what is going on in their environment.

 

[tripod]

The actual latin roots of a word and the meaning of it at it's inception are one thing and how it is used in the English language is another.

I'm not gonna fucking argue with anybody but regardless of the dictionary meaning of the word sentient, it's meaning today in the English language is simply having perception which has everything to do with attaining awareness...

Not awareness of your surroundings... hell earthworms have that ability, but self awareness.

The difference in cognitive abilities of humans and animals has been well documented to be remarkably different.

It has been established through the cognitive sciences that humans are the only species on the planet that is self aware...

Hence that humans are sentient creatures and animals are not.

It's not my fault that the English language has expanded it's meaning of the word to encompass much more than what it was originally intended to defined as.

and I'm not arguing that there were animals on Earth before humans, but that any theologian will agree that animals do not have the ability to be self aware and that self awareness is a power bestowed upon man by God.

 

[2322]

The only other animals which recognize themselves in a mirror are the higher primates, porpoises, and elephants. It is possible that there are others.

About the Genesis thing... Humans are the only creatures which fell from grace. All other animals are in a state of grace at least as far as Christians are concerned.

I think it a crime akin to murder to harm any of these creatures. We're getting better at it but we have a long way to go.

 

[vince]

I don't agree with you Tripod. Now don't get mad or fly off the handle! :smile:

I've always considered the word sentient to mean, capable of sensing one's surroundings and/or having awareness of one's surroundings. I do not agree that the word has evolved into a synonym for 'self awareness'. It may be used to mean consciousness or self-awareness by some people. But it is not correct IMO.

Self-awareness is the explicit understanding that one exists. It includes the concept that one exists as an individual, separate from others, with private thoughts. It may also include the understanding that other beings are similarly self-aware.

Sentience is much more basic than self-awareness. It is basically the ability to sense one's surroundings. Earthworms are sentient beings.

 

[dreamer20]

About the Genesis thing... Humans are the only creatures which fell from grace. All other animals are in a state of grace at least as far as Christians are concerned.

I think it a crime akin to murder to harm any of these creatures. We're getting better at it but we have a long way to go.

Re: Genesis: How forgetful of those Christians to deny the existence of a non human creature which fell from grace - i.e. the serpent punished for tempting Eve. God killed animals to create skin coats as parting gifts for Adam and Eve. God loved the smell of burning flesh as did many of the ancients who ate of it.

I don't think it should be a crime akin to murder to harm any creature.
Have you and Hung joined PETA or the JeepersJane fan club jason?

http://www.lpsg.org/56553-molestation-assault-battery-murder-ritual.html

 

[D_Kissimmee Coldsore]

[Self-awareness...] That has been long standing belief which is such crap and again b/c of the astounding events with Dorothy they are now scratching their heads .

You should read about: Mirror test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and bear in mind that, as I said above, humans only obtain a sense of self between about 18 and 24 months old; below that age human children fail the mirror test.
Also, zoologists aren't scratching their heads because a group of chimps showed a sense of loss when a member died; this is well documented behaviour in many species.