Another day, another Right-wing hypocrite.

maxcok

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I'm sorry you felt disrespected Maxcok.
But you will have to wait your turn as
I am busy defending KM from your attacks.
And you can stop with the gutter language . . .
. :confused: Gutter language? What gutter langage? On a big dick site? LOL.

. . . it's truly showing your orgin
Did you mean to say, "it's truly showing your organ"? I haven't done that here (yet). :wink:

Oh, are you saying I come from the gutter?
And you can stop with the gutter language it's truly showing your origin
What happened to your commitment to showing respect for all human beings, hmmm?
. . . he's a human being
and deserves respect like everyone else.
Are you trying to demonstrate how "clever" you are, how you can "hold your own"?
I'm pretty clever and
can hold my own.
. :laughing:

Free advice - if you want your position to be taken seriously:

A) First and foremost educate yourself a little on the issue, so you know what the hell you're talking about.

B) Understand the meaning of core concepts central to the discussion, "hypocrisy" for example.

C) Learn to spell, at least the simple words, so you don't look like a marginally literate idiot.

D) Try to use basic correct punctuation, for examples: plural words do not require an apostrophe ('s), and questions end with one of these (?) not these (.).

D+) Stop typing your posts in, as VB says, haiku format.

F) Don't expect other posters to be silent and give you a free ride while you continue to repeat the same lameass irrelevant point over and over and over and over.

p.s. Where's "dwaine"? I wanna hear from "dwaine" now.
 
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B_lrgeggs

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Expect others.. What others? It's
really ownly me, you, Vinyl Boy and
Tom Cat who have been screaming
at each other. And again at the moment
I've been fending you guys off with
this little IPOD. And, how I hate politics.
You are all just a bunch of whiners.
(not just present company----all of you)
Next time, I'll stay with the more
interestiing subjects, like sex with a big
cock or showoffs, there it doesn't
matter what your politics is, just your
cock size. But then, there we go again ...
Everyone arguing who has the biggest
dick....politics...who needs it. Well, take
care. Be Kind. And remember to change
your underwear everyday!
 

Bbucko

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have a better idea, instead of wanting to
restrict my right to free speech. Why
don't you skip over my postings. Seriously , I apologise for
the typos (I am using an iPod--it's the pits
for typing anything of length) When I do post
I do try (in most cases, to give another perspective
on things) I learn from others as I hope
others learn from me.

At no time and place have I ever suggested a restriction on your "right to free speech"; all I said, and I stand by it in its entirety, is that before you attempt to engage in a topic about which you admittedly "know nothing" that you take the time required to form educated opinions before tapping away furiously at the touch-screen on your iPhone/iPod.

This isn't Grindr, you know.

As for perspective, I'm gonna break with most of my pals here at LPSG regarding the terms "gay conservative" and "gay Republican", because even here in the US, the terms are by no means synonymous. And I have had the honor and privilege of actually interacting with/becoming friends with people from across the political and sexual spectrum at the same time.

First up is someone mentioned by VB, whom you may never heard of but who has been widely influential in American politics, both sexual and otherwise, for decades. His name is Andrew Sullivan, whom I met frequently at a gay happy-hour institution in Boston (where everything's an institution) called Fritz. When we first met he was still a grad student at Harvard, and his voice was still lush and full with an English accent, having been born in Surrey.

We maintained an amicable distance as occasional bar acquaintances from the mid-80s through the mid-90s, the latter part while serving as Editor for The New Republic. He was (and still is) brilliant, impassioned, stubborn and head-strong; he also, at one time, was devilishly sexy, though that's waned considerably over time, IMO. As he's always favored big, hairy guys, I never impressed him physically, so without the impediment of sexual tension, would engage in philosophical discussions on a pair of barstools in the late afternoon over some beers.

He was a swirling mass of contradictions and paradoxes, which infuriated most people who insist in black/white dichotomies, but which I tolerated in various degrees because I, myself, was nothing but a bundle of conflicts and paradoxes (still am, though we've both mellowed with age). He's a gay Catholic and a gay Thatcherite Tory, which seemed like irreconcilable internal inconsistencies, but argued persuasively that only the individual has the right to self-identify: externally imposed labels were (and remain) meaningless to him.

As I grew up feeling the same way about labels (though nothing else in his system of beliefs), we'd argue but always in the context of debate. It's not surprising that his credentials as a grad-student at Harvard dwarfed mine as a local HS graduate, but I scored enough blows to get him thinking more often than not. What I found distasteful in the extreme were the personal attacks, occasionally physical (after a couple of beers) that he'd endure speaking his opinions where he was clearly a political minority.

Of course, if he hadn't been so smug, arrogant and condescending (with heavy touches of a willfully blind disingenuousness), he'd have found himself the object of ridicule and contempt much lass often. But no one could say that his views lacked education or personal experience, and, though occasionally deeply flawed (from my perspective), his POV did have some power and resonance.

Being a Brit, he has no allegiance to any American political party, and despite being very much a small-c conservative, supported the candidacies of both Clinton and Obama (as well as Reagan and both Bushes) in a verbal way: he cannot vote here. His blog remains one of my chief sources fro information on the web; even when I disagree with him politically or philosophically (often), I find his choice of subject enthralling and his eloquence stirring (if not always persuasive).

Next up in a Blue Dog Dem here in FtL who would be a Republican in Massachusetts, or at least a very conservative Independent, named Joey. I will not repeat his last name as he remains, essentially, a private person despite his encyclopedic knowledge of HIV/AIDS issues both in FL and nationally, where he is a recognized expert. He's a big honcho here at one of the AIDS Service Organizations (ASOs) and is one of the most realistic and pragmatic people whom I've ever met.

But on issue after issue, he's so totally Blue Dog that, were the Republican party to cease with its using LGBTs and a wedge (and remove opposition to marriage equality as one of its core principles), he'd swap over in a heartbeat. He is in alignment with the GOP on 70% of their principles regarding fiscal issues as they are claimed (if not as they were carried out over the last 10 years) and, excluding the overtly religious overtones of their social policies, aligned with most of them as well. He is not a liberal in any sense of the term (except classical 19th Century Liberalism). There's not a recognizably progressive bone in his body.

Yet he is completely, utterly, absolutely gay.

The third is a former employer named Brandon, who is the managing partner of a very successful political consulting company based in Washington DC. His business partner was part of Jesse Helm's staff toward the end of his tenure as Senator; the are both unabashed Republicans who came of age believing the Reagan's "Big Tent" era. Though his partner (whom he loves like a sister) is reactionary and occasionally shockingly so, Brandon is the very soul of moderate Republicanism.

They are both extremely intelligent, affable and deeply involved/engaged in the "inside-the-beltway" hardball of partisan politics. For his part, Brandon still believes in the separate-but-almost-equal concept of Domestic Partnerships which he believes will eliminate the opposition of federal recognition of long-term gay relationships ("Marriage" he feels, is too much a hot-button term freighted with religious connotations), for instance. In most ways, his views regarding assimilationism makes my skin crawl. But he puts his money where his mouth is regarding HIV/AIDS care and the newly-reformed ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). He came out after much soul-searching, divorcing his high-school sweetheart-wife while still in grad school and has been unapologetically out-and-proud ever since.

FWIW, he feels that the biggest challenges facing the Republican party are the Tea Party (which he rightfully recognizes as Populist Know-Nothing-ism better suited to WJ Bryan than 21st Century conservatism) and the undue influence of religious fundamentalism, which he feels is used as a mask behind which to hide bigotry, much as the Bible was used to justify slavery.

Brandon feels that the best way to effectuate change is from the inside, not the outside. I respect his mind (and extremely sardonic sense of humor) and count him as among the very few people IRL whom I know to be a friend. There's not a self-loathing bone in his body, though there is definitely a kind of willful blindness that occasionally prevents him from seeing how entrenched and seemingly-permanently the doctrine of God, Guns & Gays have twisted his political party.

On a side-note (because he's not gay), Will Wilkerson has recently parted ways with the Cato Institute after a series of disputes over how best to fit real Libertarianism into the rubric of American political discourse: he wasn't doctrinaire enough :rolleyes: Here's a taste.
 

faceking

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zzzzzzzzzzzz
Remember former Republican National Committee Chair Ken "I'M NOT GAY!!!!" Mehlman? Remember when he complained that all those "gay rumors" really put a damper on his dating life?

Guess what? Turns out, Mehlman is just another in a long line of self-loathing closet cases actively working to deny equality of rights and protections under the law for all citizens.

What a fucking whore.
What a creep.
What a Republican.

Report: Former RNC Chair Ken Mehlman to Come Out of the Closet - Towleroad | #gay #news
 

B_VinylBoy

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Just for the record... I have visited this site on my iPod Touch and have not had one problem making a post (some rather long) when needed. Using the IPOD excuse is feeble at best... if not downright stupid.
 

maxcok

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Expect others.. What others? It's
really ownly me, you, Vinyl Boy and
Tom Cat who have been screaming
at each other.
:confused22: Screaming? Who's screaming? You're not a screamer, are you? (It's spelled ONLY, fer chrissakes.)

And again at the moment
I've been fending you guys off with
this little IPOD.
Sorry Charlie, nobody gets assigned a handicap here for having smaller inferior 'equipment'.

And, how I hate politics.
You are all just a bunch of whiners.
(not just present company----all of you)
Again:
Oh, the irony... the irony!! LOL!!! :rolleyes:
In addition, you are a apologist for homophobic hypocrites.

Next time, I'll stay with the more
interestiing subjects, like sex with a big
cock or showoffs, there it doesn't
matter what your politics is, just your
cock size. But then, there we go again ...
Everyone arguing who has the biggest
dick....politics...who needs it.
:eek: OMG, "gutter talk", I'm shocked! Anyway, it's kinda all the same.
The world is full of liars and hypocrites, all trying to prove they're bigger and better.

(I know subject/verb agreement can be confusing, but in this instance 'politics' is plural, and questions, even rhetorical ones, end with one of these (?). I know, too advanced. Maybe just focus on spelling simple words for now. AND LOSE THE GDAM HAIKU TYPING!)

Well, take
care. Be Kind. And remember to change
your underwear every/day!
:rolleyes: And remember to change the lightbulb in your closet. :thinkerg:

p.s. Give my regards to "dwaine".
 
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maxcok

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^ :rolleyes2:

Anyway Bucko,
At no time and place have I ever suggested a restriction on your "right to free speech" . . .
I know. Typical strawman deflection, eh?

One question about this:

As for perspective, I'm gonna break with most of my pals here at LPSG regarding the terms "gay conservative" and "gay Republican", because even here in the US, the terms are by no means synonymous.
I'm curious why you think most of your pals don't get that distinction? I for one have all but abandoned the term "conservative", as it's entirely lost its meaning imo, favoring instead the term 'neoconservative', 'NeoCon' for short, to refer to today's "small government", moralistic, and socially repressive so-called "conservatives".

It's ironic (and hypocritical) how these fiscally "small government" NeoCons have no problem with bloated military budgets, or policies and budget busting programs that benefit the more affluent, but scream bloody murder at anything that benefits the disadvantaged or helps protect anyone out of the 'mainstream'. A true conservative would never push a religious agenda, or legislate against gay marriage either. I certainly don't think all Republicans are NeoCons or vice versa, but there is certainly plenty of overlap these days.

As for the rest of your post, most interesting, but don't you think it might be a little advanced for the student?

:wink:
 
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Bbucko

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One question about this:

I'm curious why you think most of your pals don't get that distinction? I for one have all but abandoned the term "conservative", as it's entirely lost its meaning imo, favoring instead the term 'neoconservative', 'NeoCon' for short, to refer to today's "small government", moralistic, and socially repressive so-called "conservatives".

It's ironic (and hypocritical) how these fiscally "small government" NeoCons have no problem with bloated military budgets, or policies and budget busting programs that benefit the more affluent, but scream bloody murder at anything that benefits the disadvantaged or helps protect anyone out of the 'mainstream'. A true conservative would never push a religious agenda, or legislate against gay marriage either. I certainly don't think all Republicans are NeoCons or vice versa, but there is certainly plenty of overlap these days.

As for the rest of your post, most interesting, but don't you think it might be just a little advanced for the student? :wink:

I wasn't speaking of you (or anyone, really) specifically when I mentioned "my pals", though a quick perusal of several threads here will reveal that there are rarely commas or other breathing spaces between "self-loathing" and "gay conservative". The fully self-actualized and intelligent, informed conservative gay man is, indeed, a rarity. But they do exist and are understandably ornery at being pigeon-holed and marginalized.

Edited to add: I am as far from conservative as any one person can be, as those who know me can attest.

We are in complete agreement regarding how far from Eisenhower and Goldwater conservatism in general and Republicanism specifically seem to have run off the tracks, and so many times I've read/heard that someone didn't leave the Republican party, rather that the party left him/her. And as the base shrinks into undiluted Palinism, I can only hope that those thoughtful and fiscally responsible Republicans who do exist jettison Teabaggery and Bible-thumpers to form its own party; we really won't be able to tell until the returns of the midterms (to a partial degree because we all know that there will be Republican gains, though we don't know to what degree and which side of the abyss will triumph) and the election of 2012 is decided.

I think I gave up on the use of the word "mainstream" when both IN and NC went blue in 2010 :cool:. Full marriage equality in IA similarly punctured a preconception I'd cherished all my life: I'll gladly admit it.

As to "the pupil": I don't speak down to anybody, which I find gets me in hot water more than not. But at least in that one case, I have reason to believe (though am not at liberty to say why) that I may not have taken the wrong approach: time will tell. Besides, I'm not here to change anyone's mind (except, occasionally, my own).
 
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Bbucko

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As for the rest of your post, most interesting, but don't you think it might be a little advanced for the student?

:wink:

Turns out you were right: total false alarm as regards enlightenment. It seems I have "anger issues": thanks, Dr Laura :rolleyes:
 

Bbucko

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Back on topic, I found this article in The Daily Beast by Reihan Salam, who's hardly a blushing lib (or even a mushy-middle moderate). It's quite supportive.

Who knows if this mightn't be s bright new day for gay acceptance among conservatives (even if the Repubs as a party will take years to evolve, if they ever even do, which is a big "if").

ETA: Take careful note of the level of gay acceptance among republican-leaning Independents: it's nearly as high as the Democrats'. There's a large well of untapped electorate if the Republicans ever come to their senses (again: no breath-holding from yours truly) :rolleyes:
 
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TomCat84

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Expect others.. What others? It's
really ownly me, you, Vinyl Boy and
Tom Cat who have been screaming
at each other. And again at the moment
I've been fending you guys off with
this little IPOD. And, how I hate politics.
You are all just a bunch of whiners.
(not just present company----all of you)
Next time, I'll stay with the more
interestiing subjects, like sex with a big
cock or showoffs, there it doesn't
matter what your politics is, just your
cock size. But then, there we go again ...
Everyone arguing who has the biggest
dick....politics...who needs it. Well, take
care. Be Kind. And remember to change
your underwear everyday!

Sweetheart, Im not screaming at you. I'm telling you not to give your opinion about something after you admit you dont know what youre talking about
 

maxcok

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And as the base shrinks into undiluted Palinism, I can only hope that those thoughtful and fiscally responsible Republicans who do exist jettison Teabaggery and Bible-thumpers to form its own party....
I do not expect that to happen. As the party veers harder to the right desperately trying to hang onto their base, the Dems steer to the right too, trying to pick up disaffected 'R' votes in the center. And people wonder why the whole country has shifted to the right.

The irony here is that the Republicans have created these fringe Frankensteins they're so desperate to retain and control, through decades of pushing their message "Government isn't the answer, government is the problem". Now they're faced with the problem of a right-wing base who's suspicious of any government and all politcians, especially career politicians, even Republicans. Wow, who could have seen that coming. :rolleyes:

I don't see how a viable third party can emerge in the forseeable future. The Republicans have already proven they will do anything they can to hold themselves together, sacrificing whatever principles they may have left (presuming they have any). The elimination of campaign spending limits by the SCOTUS only solidifies the power of the existing two party system. No one else will have the finances and organization to seriously compete.

we really won't be able to tell until the returns of the midterms (to a partial degree because we all know that there will be Republican gains, though we don't know to what degree and which side of the abyss will triumph) and the election of 2012 is decided.
What to me will be most interesting is how many of the "tea party" identified candidates will make it through in the general. Most are running as Republicans and many are beating out experienced, solidly conservative Republicans in the primaries. It could work to the Democrats' advantage if they are seen as too extreme by the wider electorate (e.g. Rand Paul) and rejected, limiting Democratic losses overall. On the other hand if they suceed, it will expand their influence within the Republican party and seriously gum up the works once they're seated in Congress - as if things weren't bad enough. Either way, it's a referendum on the strength and validity of the movement, or lack thereof. Either way, I don't expect a hell of a lot to be accomplished over the next two years, unless by some miracle the Dems are able to hang onto or increase their majority.

I think I gave up on the use of the word "mainstream" when both IN and NC went blue in 2010 :cool:. Full marriage equality in IA similarly punctured a preconception I'd cherished all my life: I'll gladly admit it.
(I think you meant to say 2008, yes?) Having spent some time in Iowa, don't underestimate those 'Hawkeyes', they're called that for a reason. And boy, what goes on out in those cornfields would surprise you! :mischievous:

As to "the pupil": . . . I may not have taken the wrong approach: time will tell.
Turns out you were right: total false alarm as regards enlightenment. It seems I have "anger issues": thanks, Dr Laura :rolleyes:
Well, time tells. Not gonna say it though . . . . :wink:

Back on topic, I found this article in The Daily Beast by Reihan Salam, . . .
Check the link. There is no there, there. :smile:
 
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D_Gunther Snotpole

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As for perspective, I'm gonna break with most of my pals here at LPSG regarding the terms "gay conservative" and "gay Republican", because even here in the US, the terms are by no means synonymous. And I have had the honor and privilege of actually interacting with/becoming friends with people from across the political and sexual spectrum at the same time.

First up is someone mentioned by VB, whom you may never heard of but who has been widely influential in American politics, both sexual and otherwise, for decades. His name is
Andrew Sullivan, whom I met frequently at a gay happy-hour institution in Boston (where everything's an institution) called Fritz. When we first met he was still a grad student at Harvard, and his voice was still lush and full with an English accent, having been born in Surrey.

We maintained an amicable distance as occasional bar acquaintances from the mid-80s through the mid-90s, the latter part while serving as Editor for The New Republic. He was (and still is) brilliant, impassioned, stubborn and head-strong; he also, at one time, was devilishly sexy, though that's waned considerably over time, IMO. As he's always favored big, hairy guys, I never impressed him physically, so without the impediment of sexual tension, would engage in philosophical discussions on a pair of barstools in the late afternoon over some beers.


He was a swirling mass of contradictions and paradoxes, which infuriated most people who insist in black/white dichotomies, but which I tolerated in various degrees because I, myself, was nothing but a bundle of conflicts and paradoxes (still am, though we've both mellowed with age). He's a gay Catholic and a
gay Thatcherite Tory, which seemed like irreconcilable internal inconsistencies, but argued persuasively that only the individual has the right to self-identify: externally imposed labels were (and remain) meaningless to him.

As I grew up feeling the same way about labels (though nothing else in his system of beliefs), we'd argue but always in the context of debate. It's not surprising that his credentials as a grad-student at Harvard dwarfed mine as a local HS graduate, but I scored enough blows to get him thinking more often than not. What I found distasteful in the extreme were the personal attacks, occasionally physical (after a couple of beers) that he'd endure speaking his opinions where he was clearly a political minority.


Of course, if he hadn't been so smug, arrogant and condescending (with heavy touches of a willfully blind disingenuousness), he'd have found himself the object of ridicule and contempt much lass often. But no one could say that his views lacked education or personal experience, and, though occasionally deeply flawed (from my perspective), his POV did have some power and resonance.


Being a Brit, he has no allegiance to any American political party, and despite being very much a small-c conservative, supported the candidacies of both Clinton and Obama (as well as Reagan and both Bushes) in a verbal way: he cannot vote here. His blog remains one of my chief sources fro information on the web; even when I disagree with him politically or philosophically (often), I find his choice of subject enthralling and his eloquence stirring (if not always persuasive).


Next up in a Blue Dog Dem here in FtL who would be a Republican in Massachusetts, or at least a very conservative Independent, named Joey. I will not repeat his last name as he remains, essentially, a private person despite his encyclopedic knowledge of HIV/AIDS issues both in FL and nationally, where he is a recognized expert. He's a big honcho here at one of the AIDS Service Organizations (ASOs) and is one of the most realistic and pragmatic people whom I've ever met.


But on issue after issue, he's so totally Blue Dog that, were the Republican party to cease with its using LGBTs and a wedge (and remove opposition to marriage equality as one of its core principles), he'd swap over in a heartbeat. He is in alignment with the GOP on 70% of their principles regarding fiscal issues as they are claimed (if not as they were carried out over the last 10 years) and, excluding the overtly religious overtones of their social policies, aligned with most of them as well. He is not a liberal in any sense of the term (except classical 19th Century Liberalism). There's not a recognizably progressive bone in his body.


Yet he is completely, utterly, absolutely gay.


The third is a former employer named Brandon, who is the managing partner of a very successful political consulting company based in Washington DC. His business partner was part of Jesse Helm's staff toward the end of his tenure as Senator; the are both unabashed Republicans who came of age believing the Reagan's "Big Tent" era. Though his partner (whom he loves like a sister) is reactionary and occasionally shockingly so, Brandon is the very soul of moderate Republicanism.


They are both extremely intelligent, affable and deeply involved/engaged in the "inside-the-beltway" hardball of partisan politics. For his part, Brandon still believes in the separate-but-almost-equal concept of Domestic Partnerships which he believes will eliminate the opposition of federal recognition of long-term gay relationships ("Marriage" he feels, is too much a hot-button term freighted with religious connotations), for instance. In most ways, his views regarding assimilationism makes my skin crawl. But he puts his money where his mouth is regarding HIV/AIDS care and the newly-reformed ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). He came out after much soul-searching, divorcing his high-school sweetheart-wife while still in grad school and has been unapologetically out-and-proud ever since.


FWIW, he feels that the biggest challenges facing the Republican party are the Tea Party (which he rightfully recognizes as Populist Know-Nothing-ism better suited to
WJ Bryan than 21st Century conservatism) and the undue influence of religious fundamentalism, which he feels is used as a mask behind which to hide bigotry, much as the Bible was used to justify slavery.

Brandon feels that the best way to effectuate change is from the inside, not the outside. I respect his mind (and extremely sardonic sense of humor) and count him as among the very few people IRL whom I know to be a friend. There's not a self-loathing bone in his body, though there is definitely a kind of willful blindness that occasionally prevents him from seeing how entrenched and seemingly-permanently the doctrine of God, Guns & Gays have twisted his political party.


On a side-note (because he's not gay),
Will Wilkerson has recently parted ways with the Cato Institute after a series of disputes over how best to fit real Libertarianism into the rubric of American political discourse: he wasn't doctrinaire enough :rolleyes: Here's a taste.
Hmmm. Quite a post, Bbucko.
 

Bbucko

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I do not expect that to happen. As the party veers harder to the right desperately trying to hang onto their base, the Dems steer to the right too, trying to pick up disaffected 'R' votes in the center. And people wonder why the whole country has shifted to the right.

The irony here is that the Republicans have created these fringe Frankensteins they're so desperate to retain and control, through decades of pushing their message "Government isn't the answer, government is the problem". Now they're faced with the problem of a right-wing base who's suspicious of any government and all politcians, especially career politicians, even Republicans. Wow, who could have seen that coming. :rolleyes:

I don't see how a viable third party can emerge in the forseeable future. The Republicans have already proven they will do anything they can to hold themselves together, sacrificing whatever principles they may have left (presuming they have any). The elimination of campaign spending limits by the SCOTUS only solidifies the power of the existing two party system. No one else will have the finances and organization to seriously compete.Check the link. There is no there, there. :smile:

What to me will be most interesting is how many of the "tea party" identified candidates will make it through in the general. Most are running as Republicans and many are beating out experienced, solidly conservative Republicans in the primaries. It could work to the Democrats' advantage if they are seen as too extreme by the wider electorate (e.g. Rand Paul) and rejected, limiting Democratic losses overall. On the other hand if they suceed, it will expand their influence within the Republican party and seriously gum up the works once they're seated in Congress - as if things weren't bad enough. Either way, it's a referendum on the strength and validity of the movement, or lack thereof. Either way, I don't expect a hell of a lot to be accomplished over the next two years, unless by some miracle the Dems are able to hang onto or increase their majority.

My larger point is that the Republicans need to jettison the Teabagger/Bible thumpers from their party just as they did the John Birch Society in the early 60s: the parallels are almost uncanny. The problem is that Romney is no Eisenhower, Cantor is no Goldwater, and William Kristol is no WF Buckley. At this moment, there really is no "there" there.

In order for our political system to function, we need two functioning parties; ironically, this is because large numbers of voters (in many cases the majority) consider themselves Independents. The extremes offered to the general (read Independent) voters by the Teabagging Palinista base (see Sharron Angle, for instance) will be unpalatable to most and are therefore unelectable. There will be shocks and other surprises, but in general, I think that all that tugging to the right ("R" stands for Republican, not Reactionary) will miss more often than it hits.

Dems have always pandered to certain conservative-leaning Indies: name one who is both pro-marriage equality and pro-medical marijuana. Now throw the Cordoba House into the mix and of course there'll be a pander-fest, especially when the alternative is so very unlikely. It's one of the reasons why I fine the Democrats to be spineless and rudderless: if there is really that large a number of pro-marriage equality Dems in this country, where the hell are they?



(I think you meant to say 2008, yes?) Having spent some time in Iowa, don't underestimate those 'Hawkeyes', they're called that for a reason. And boy, what goes on out in those cornfields would surprise you! :mischievous:


Well, time tells. Not gonna say it though . . . . :wink:

Check the link. There is no there, there. :smile:

Yup and Yup :redface:

2008 and this story here: sorry!
 

KJ831

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It's not the fact that he's gay that bothers me, it's his hypocrisy.

Over the past couple of years, I've generally operated under the assumption that anybody who acts really preachy about family values either has a mistress or is gay, and any politician that acts really homophobic is probably gay.
 

B_OtterJoq

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