Another example of fundamentalist Christian "love"

joyboytoy79

Sexy Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Posts
3,686
Media
32
Likes
61
Points
193
Location
Washington, D.C. (United States)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
big, you know I respect you immensely, but I take exception with some of your logic here.

All the bad things done in the name of Christianity do not make all the good things done in its name bad. A good deed is a good deed - plain and simple.

I don't think anyone was asserting that a good deed is bad if it is done in the name of any religion. I think the point was that "Christian charity" is really just "charity" and people are just as likely to be charitable if they are Animist, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jain, Jew, Muslim, Pagan, Shinto, Taoist, Zoroastrian, or atheist. So, yes, a good deed is a good deed, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. Conversely, a bad deed is a bad deed and has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.

Crusades and religious wars? How do they automatically disprove the teachings and beliefs of the religion? Man is evil by nature, and thus will always try to manipulate it to fit his ideas and world views.

I'm sorry that your religion teaches you to look for evil in your fellow man. I choose to see that man (and woman, for that matter) is both evil and good, at all points and during all actions, for the entirety of his/her life. Homo sapiens, as the only known religious being on earth, is the originator of religion. If man is evil by nature, and man created religion, how then could not the evilness of man corrupt the sacredness of religion? And how, then, do we distinguish between good and evil? The easiest solution is to remove the cloak religion from the deeds of man, and judge those deeds based on their ability to hinder or help mankind.

I would agree that seeing religion without the "dust" of mankind often takes maturity. At the same time, it is important to say that most religions are actually "cults", and so only a very few do I recognize as "sound".

You contradict yourself in this paragraph. You say that one must remove mankind from religion to see it properly, and then in the next breath denounce some religions (presumably not your own) as "cults." You dust the mantle of mankind over religion while simultaneously saying that one must remove said dust in order to properly view religion. That's grossly unfair, and more than moderately hypocritical. Either all religion is exempt from the flaws of mankind, or none of it is. Any assertion in-between is, by necessity, biased in favor of him doing the asserting. This is ESPECIALLY true if one accepts your prior assertion that man is evil by nature.


Hitler was Austrian, but he represented the German people.

Hitler represented the Nazi party. He spoke for himself, and the Nazis, and some of the German people agreed with him, and some of them did not. The same can be said for any world figurehead. As an example, while I agree with many of the positions of President Obama, I do not be any means view him as representative of me. I do, however, view him as being representative of the Democratic party, a grouping I do not belong to.

(no longer in response to the esteemed Mr. bull)

For the record, I have nothing against religion. I do have something against the way some people choose to practice their religion. I find it offensive when people assert that good deeds can only be accomplished through the influence of one's religion, or that evil deeds are perpetrated only through the corruption of one's religion. That, to me, removes one of the central tenets of every religion I have thus encountered: free will.

I do not dispute that the man in this video is committing heinous crimes against children. I do not dispute that he hides these crimes behind his religion. I do not accept, however, that his is the true face of Baptists as a sect, or Christians as a religious people. I firmly believe, all insistence from them to the contrary, that every Christian has a deeply held a personal understanding of God, and that no book ever written can ever completely capture the true essence of that understanding.

If it sounds like I'm saying that one's religious affiliation is irrelevant, that's because I am.
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
All the bad things done in the name of Christianity do not make all the good things done in its name bad. A good deed is a good deed - plain and simple.
Just so long as you accept the reverse. All the good things done in the name of christianity do not make all the bad things done in its name good. A bad deed is a bad deed - plain and simple.

Hitler was Austrian, but he represented the German people.
Obama is american but it seems to matter an awful lot to some people they believe he isnt.

All these good christians, yet they never out the bad ones.
Its a catch 22. Being good christians they believe in forgivness and allowing someone a second chance.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,616
Media
50
Likes
4,782
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Never heard of it.

It is the basic Confession of faith of the Protestant churches in the British Isles, drawn up 1647 in Westminster. It is a foundation document for Anglican and Reformed churches, both in the British Isles and now worldwide. The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646)

Chapter xxv is on the nature of the church and includes a strongly worded protestant view on the Roman Catholic church. The idea is that there are good and bad churches.
 

umami_tsunami

Expert Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
May 25, 2011
Posts
388
Media
52
Likes
126
Points
163
Location
Philadelphia
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Religion is contemptible. It offends rational, reasonable thinking and allows unabashed bigotry, aggressive stupidity and willful ignorance to be imposed on our discourse. I enjoy the opportunity to ridicule the faithful and show my contempt whenever possible.

I actually have a shred of respect for the fundamentalists. They have the courage of their convictions and just fucking own their craziness. At least they are willing to say, "Hey, this shit is true" and not come up with weak half-assed excuses about how it's metaphorical, blah, blah bullshit. Fundamentalists actually make "religious moderates" look even more hypocritical. The more exposure idiots like this get, the more people will realize how ignorant the whole premise is. Nothing make a case for atheism like the Bible, the Koran, Book of Mormon etc.

This motherfucker makes my case better than I ever could.
 

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,638
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
Religion is contemptible. It offends rational, reasonable thinking and allows unabashed bigotry, aggressive stupidity and willful ignorance to be imposed on our discourse. I enjoy the opportunity to ridicule the faithful and show my contempt whenever possible.

I actually have a shred of respect for the fundamentalists. They have the courage of their convictions and just fucking own their craziness. At least they are willing to say, "Hey, this shit is true" and not come up with weak half-assed excuses about how it's metaphorical, blah, blah bullshit. Fundamentalists actually make "religious moderates" look even more hypocritical. The more exposure idiots like this get, the more people will realize how ignorant the whole premise is. Nothing make a case for atheism like the Bible, the Koran, Book of Mormon etc.

This motherfucker makes my case better than I ever could.

Had some bad experiences with religion?
 

Drifterwood

Superior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Posts
18,677
Media
0
Likes
2,811
Points
333
Location
Greece
Its a catch 22. Being good christians they believe in forgivness and allowing someone a second chance.

It's only a catch 22 if you are a self righteous sanctimonious cunt who thinks they somehow have a direct line to right and wrong, with the right to impose this on other people whilst for example overlooking and covering up the abuses of your brothers.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,616
Media
50
Likes
4,782
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
The Roman Catholic church did not give its child rapist priests a second chance because it believed in forgiveness. It covered up their child rapes because it believes respect for the priesthood is worth any price. The Roman Catholic church is charged with seeing its own reputation as so important that child rape is a price it will pay.

Enda Kenny has recently complained that the papacy is still not cooperating with the Irish authorities in sharing the information it has about child rape. The consequences of the child rape scandal in Ireland has been that one of the most devoutly Roman Catholic countries has had something of a national loss of faith. People are turning away from that church entirely, or seeing it only as a cultural expression.
 

umami_tsunami

Expert Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
May 25, 2011
Posts
388
Media
52
Likes
126
Points
163
Location
Philadelphia
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Had some bad experiences with religion?

Not really. I was (gratefully) raised in a completely secular home environment. This allowed me to avoid the abusive, ignorant inculcation most children receive. My contempt has grown coincidentally with my awareness of the damage religion causes and it's impediment to progress, reason and well-being. Significant educational jurisdictions want equal weight given to biblical creation claims. This is just ludicrous and we are all dumber for allowing it. The world is facing huge issues and we are electing representatives to make vital decisions about our future.

I hope to see the day that religion is relegated to history and mythology and public profession of true belief in the revealed word of god is met with ill-concealed laughter and dismissal from any intelligent conversation. I will make any contribution I can to expedite that process.

I would not suggest any need to pass laws against it or deny anyone the right to believe, just as we don't outlaw belief in Santa Claus or woodland elves. Religion should remain as a cautionary part of humanities' history, but will increasingly be marginalized as any reasonable guideline for answering important questions.
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Some of my best friends are woodland elves. Much nicer than the ones from the mountains. But you are going to have a tough time persuading them to give up religion.
 

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,638
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
Not really. I was (gratefully) raised in a completely secular home environment. This allowed me to avoid the abusive, ignorant inculcation most children receive. My contempt has grown coincidentally with my awareness of the damage religion causes and it's impediment to progress, reason and well-being.

I grew up in a secular household as well, and for that reason didn't feel particularly in favor of or opposed to religion. Of course there have been countless huge atrocities and small abuses committed in God's name. There have also been countless people whose religion prompted them to give a better account of themselves than they might have otherwise. As with so much else, there are pros and cons.

As for the ultimate truth of the matter, the one belief I hold pretty firmly is that we don't begin to understand the full measure of reality. Modern physics has made that clear. That fundamental ignorance is not necessarily an argument in favor of a religious perspective, but it's not an argument against it, either.
 

umami_tsunami

Expert Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
May 25, 2011
Posts
388
Media
52
Likes
126
Points
163
Location
Philadelphia
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
I grew up in a secular household as well, and for that reason didn't feel particularly in favor of or opposed to religion. Of course there have been countless huge atrocities and small abuses committed in God's name. There have also been countless people whose religion prompted them to give a better account of themselves than they might have otherwise. As with so much else, there are pros and cons.

As for the ultimate truth of the matter, the one belief I hold pretty firmly is that we don't begin to understand the full measure of reality. Modern physics has made that clear. That fundamental ignorance is not necessarily an argument in favor of a religious perspective, but it's not an argument against it, either.

Agree with most of this. I have no quarrel with those who claim not to know, but rather with those who are certain they do. And there are overwhelming numbers that make this claim.

I will continue to jab at the gullibility and arrogance of those who proudly claim moral superiority or deserving of immunity from harsh criticism. We roundly discredit preposterous claims in any other area of discourse. Religion should be no different. To believe in something without sufficient evidence to the point that you would organize your life around it really should be something to be ashamed of, not trotted out as some kind of accomplishment or mark of a better person.

"Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things...

...But for good people to do bad things — that takes religion."

Noble-Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg.
 

Meniscus

Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Posts
3,434
Media
0
Likes
1,947
Points
333
Location
Massachusetts, United States of America
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Another one of my faves is:

Jesus Loves You
But Everyone Else Thinks You're An Asshole


My immediate family was introduced to the above saying by a wise-ass cousin of mine. The parents and sister thought that it was so funny, that whenever one of them gets annoyed, they just smile and say "Jesus loves you." It's kind of a light-hearted, affection way of saying "fuck you" to each other when they're irritated or exasperated, but not really mad.
 
Last edited:

Meniscus

Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Posts
3,434
Media
0
Likes
1,947
Points
333
Location
Massachusetts, United States of America
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
...My contempt has grown coincidentally with my awareness of the damage religion causes and it's impediment to progress, reason and well-being...I hope to see the day that religion is relegated to history and mythology and public profession of true belief in the revealed word of god is met with ill-concealed laughter and dismissal from any intelligent conversation. I will make any contribution I can to expedite that process.

You should check out this guy's YouTube channel. He's erudite, well-spoken, funny, charming, and kinda good-lookin'.

TheoreticalBullshit's Channel - YouTube
 

The Dragon

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Posts
5,767
Media
0
Likes
51
Points
193
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
The Roman Catholic church did not give its child rapist priests a second chance because it believed in forgiveness. It covered up their child rapes because it believes respect for the priesthood is worth any price. The Roman Catholic church is charged with seeing its own reputation as so important that child rape is a price it will pay.

Enda Kenny has recently complained that the papacy is still not cooperating with the Irish authorities in sharing the information it has about child rape. The consequences of the child rape scandal in Ireland has been that one of the most devoutly Roman Catholic countries has had something of a national loss of faith. People are turning away from that church entirely, or seeing it only as a cultural expression.

I can fill in the blanks as to how the Roman catholic church or more rather the Irish catholic sect dealt with their child rapists.
They were shipped to other parts of the world where they had churches and schools.
Here in Australia, when I was a child they had a very big presence.

The physical, emotional and sexual abuse of myself and the other students at the hands of the Irish priests and the "enabling" nuns was something I'm never going to forget or am I ever going to forgive.
I can only be thankful that I was a day student because I shudder to think of what happened in the place once the sun went down.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,616
Media
50
Likes
4,782
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Dragon, that's terrible, and I'm really sad to hear it.

Yes one way the RC church failed to deal with it's child rapist priests was to keep moving them around. Moves within Ireland came first, then moves overseas. Very many people were complicit including the last and present popes.

One Christian response is to say that some churches fall so far from Christianity that they are no longer Christian. Child rapist priests, enabling nuns and a hierarchy up to the popes which covers up is a falling far from Christianity. It might be argued that while individual RC members may be Christians the institution has shown itself not to be.
 

Mensch1351

Cherished Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Posts
1,166
Media
0
Likes
341
Points
303
Location
In the only other State that begins with "K"!
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Not really. I was (gratefully) raised in a completely secular home environment. This allowed me to avoid the abusive, ignorant inculcation most children receive. My contempt has grown coincidentally with my awareness of the damage religion causes and it's impediment to progress, reason and well-being. Significant educational jurisdictions want equal weight given to biblical creation claims. This is just ludicrous and we are all dumber for allowing it. The world is facing huge issues and we are electing representatives to make vital decisions about our future.

I hope to see the day that religion is relegated to history and mythology and public profession of true belief in the revealed word of god is met with ill-concealed laughter and dismissal from any intelligent conversation. I will make any contribution I can to expedite that process.

I would not suggest any need to pass laws against it or deny anyone the right to believe, just as we don't outlaw belief in Santa Claus or woodland elves. Religion should remain as a cautionary part of humanities' history, but will increasingly be marginalized as any reasonable guideline for answering important questions.

A very interesting expression of Agnosticism!! I personally was raised in a traditional home where church was very much a part of our family life and we were encouraged to seek our spiritual truth. I didn't see how singing "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so," as being an inculcation impeding my personal growth towards reason and well being!

For those who see religion or spirituality merely as a "crutch" -- you might be interested to know that it is quite comforting to place your trust in something that is larger than SELF alone. When faced with the great questions of life (its meaning, purpose AND its finiteness), having faith in a God who loves me unconditionally, forgives me for my failures, promises strength for my trials, guidance for my life and victory over my death is in my estimation a "cutting edge" philosophy to cling to. I have NO problem admitting my own weaknesses and my need for a Savior. I take great comfort in a God who bore my same human flesh, knows my personal pain and out of love willingingly gave himself to death in order to overcome it!

When the Christian message is not perverted by all its interpretive abuses, it really is a profound truth that I am oftentimes astounded so many find impossible to believe! It is what Kierkegaard rightly called the "leap" of faith! Any denial of God's existence does NOT make that a truth --- and as someone wisely said, "For those who REFUSE to believe, no miracle would be so great as to create faith!" And one last thought -- religion isn't about RULES -- it's about RELATIONSHIPS. And when you think about it ALL relationships have 2 primary components: Love & Forgiveness. And Love and Forgiveness are at the heart of and are the basis of Christianity! And I would also venture to say that life itself is surely about relationships! As long as the human heart yearns for a higher aspiration than ME, Myself, Alone --- it will find a way to faith.
 

Mensch1351

Cherished Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Posts
1,166
Media
0
Likes
341
Points
303
Location
In the only other State that begins with "K"!
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Religion is contemptible. It offends rational, reasonable thinking and allows unabashed bigotry, aggressive stupidity and willful ignorance to be imposed on our discourse. I enjoy the opportunity to ridicule the faithful and show my contempt whenever possible.

I actually have a shred of respect for the fundamentalists. They have the courage of their convictions and just fucking own their craziness. At least they are willing to say, "Hey, this shit is true" and not come up with weak half-assed excuses about how it's metaphorical, blah, blah bullshit. Fundamentalists actually make "religious moderates" look even more hypocritical. The more exposure idiots like this get, the more people will realize how ignorant the whole premise is. Nothing make a case for atheism like the Bible, the Koran, Book of Mormon etc.

This motherfucker makes my case better than I ever could.

You are one angry dude aren't you??? "Religion is contemptable!" So let's talk spirituality. I would be extremely interested to know whether or not you believe in the conscience -- you know -- that little voice inside of you that tells you: "ooooh no, don't do THAT because it's BAD" or "oh yeah, now THAT'S good!" That little voice that beats you up so badly when you screw up and calls you stupid, stupid, stupid. That little voice that when you do something you are proud of says, "hey pal -- goooood job!" Do you have that? Then in heaven's name, what STANDARD do you apply to what is ultimately Good and what is ultimately Evil? What boundaries guide you in any sense of moral behavior and determining when something may deceivingly SEEM good and beneficial, but is ultimately destructive? I would be willing to bet that YOU YOURSELF set whatever standards or boundaries of behavior guide your life. And that those standards are just filled with inconsistencies. The very first pages of Genesis tell the story of how humankind really wanted to be more fully "like God" in the pure knowledge of good and evil! EGO "Easing God Out!" And replacing it with self! I would purport that you ARE a believer -- in yourself -- period............and if the world were made just a little more in YOUR image it would be so much a better place!

And just one more thought........if religion offends rational, reasonable thinking --- so does love!!