Another example of fundamentalist Christian "love"

[The Dragon]

What a load of pure unmitigated bulldust!

Here is the hint for ya fella,

Dumbo also believed that the "magic feather" he held in his trunk enabled him to fly.

Dorothy (from The wizard of Oz fame) believed that at the end of all her trials on the yellow brick road would bring her back to her loved ones when, in actual fact, she possessed the tools ( the ruby slippers) to make it happen all a long.

Sure, by all means grip and cling tightly to your myth, your fairytale. Do and believe what ever you need to to bolster your courage and strength or use it to merely dull your reasoning like an opiate.
Relinquish responsibility for your self and the your impact on the world around you and languish in the mental subterfuge of "it must be gods will".
After all if society hits the skids and the world starts to destruct that just brings you god damned nut cases all the closer to rapture, right.

 

[monel]

What a load of pure unmitigated bulldust!

Here is the hint for ya fella,

Dumbo also believed that the "magic feather" he held in his trunk enabled him to fly.

Dorothy (from The wizard of Oz fame) believed that at the end of all her trials on the yellow brick road would bring her back to her loved ones when, in actual fact, she possessed the tools ( the ruby slippers) to make it happen all a long.

Sure, by all means grip and cling tightly to your myth, your fairytale. Do and believe what ever you need to to bolster your courage and strength or use it to merely dull your reasoning like an opiate.
Relinquish responsibility for your self and the your impact on the world around you and languish in the mental subterfuge of "it must be gods will".
After all if society hits the skids and the world starts to destruct that just brings you god damned nut cases all the closer to rapture, right.

DRAGON! Welcome back! And might I say your ? in your avatar is looking as fetching as ever. Nice to see your name back on the boards. :smile:

*Sorry for the irrelevant post. Now back to the show*

 

[The Dragon]

This issue strikes far too close to home for me personally not for me to wade in.

Does a grey monochrome suit me?

 

[Drifterwood]

Does a grey monochrome suit me?

No. Get your arse back here.

 

[umami_tsunami]

...we were encouraged to seek our spiritual truth. I didn't see how singing "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so," as being an inculcation impeding my personal growth towards reason and well being!

You were encouraged to seek your truth as long as it was Jesus.

...it is quite comforting to place your trust in something that is larger than SELF alone.

Why do you need to do that? I don't. It's not necessary and it abdicates responsibility.

When faced with the great questions of life (its meaning, purpose AND its finiteness), having faith in a God who loves me unconditionally, forgives me for my failures, promises strength for my trials, guidance for my life and victory over my death is in my estimation a "cutting edge" philosophy to cling to.

It's not "cutting edge". It's as backward as thinking gets. It's iron age mythology passed down from illiterate, tribal desert dwellers who lived in a time when we didn't know where the sun went at night and what a germ was. It's believing something someone told you without any evidence to support it. It's believing someone knows something they can't possibly know.

I have NO problem admitting my own weaknesses and my need for a Savior. I take great comfort in a God who bore my same human flesh, knows my personal pain and out of love willingingly gave himself to death in order to overcome it!

um, ok. so, you you think a god in the sky knows your personal pain, loves you and died for you. This is exactly the kind of weird, unsubstantiated magical thinking that would get you laughed out of the room if you were to replace the word "god" with any other word. Do you believe in Zeus? Poseidon? Thor? Or is it only Jesus? You only believe in Jesus because your parents told you to when you were a child.

When the Christian message is not perverted by all its interpretive abuses, it really is a profound truth that I am oftentimes astounded so many find impossible to believe! It is what Kierkegaard rightly called the "leap" of faith! Any denial of God's existence does NOT make that a truth --- and as someone wisely said, "For those who REFUSE to believe, no miracle would be so great as to create faith!" And one last thought -- religion isn't about RULES -- it's about RELATIONSHIPS. And when you think about it ALL relationships have 2 primary components: Love & Forgiveness. And Love and Forgiveness are at the heart of and are the basis of Christianity! And I would also venture to say that life itself is surely about relationships! As long as the human heart yearns for a higher aspiration than ME, Myself, Alone --- it will find a way to faith.

It is not a truth. That would require evidence and proof. There is none. I have many great relationships. Love and forgiveness are certainly part of my life. Belief in a personal god is not required to experience either of those.

 

[dandelion]

Modern physics has made that clear.

Funnily enough been having a tough time lately, physics. But if you find the rules are wrong at least you get to rewrite them.

 

[B_Nick8]

So I see this article on CNN.com today and I think "Oh, maybe some good news: the homophobic Mormon Church is evolving." But no. They're simply using this guy as a lure for lapsed gay Mormons who've rightly left a church that rejects them as sinners if they're "active" and indeed are only allowing the subject of the article to serve because he broke up with his long time partner last year and has agreed to remain celibate (premarital sex being prohibited) unless and until he meets someone new. At which point, it's mutually understood that he'll step down--what hypocrisy on both parts! And he's basing his future hopes on the legalization of same-sex marriage in California which the Mormon Church was instrumental in overturning??! Sheesh. This is one glass-half-full kinda guy if he's hoping to reform that system from within.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/24/church-leadership-post-for-an-openly-gay-mormon/?hpt=hp_c2

 

[Charles Finn]

i love the church I go to now and i will be joining it in November.
we are all inclusive all we preach love not hate our pastor is great we are a small group but we do what good we can not all churches preach sin and hate

 

[travis1985]

Enda Kenny has recently complained that the papacy is still not cooperating with the Irish authorities in sharing the information it has about child rape. The consequences of the child rape scandal in Ireland has been that one of the most devoutly Roman Catholic countries has had something of a national loss of faith. People are turning away from that church entirely, or seeing it only as a cultural expression.

Don't abbreviate history. People turning away from the Church or seeing it only as a cultural expression exploded in the aftermath of Vatican II, when people used a moment of confusion to dismember the parts of Church teaching they didn't care for. You make it sound like everyone was pious, completely faithful Catholics until the sex scandal hit, and boom, suddenly none of them can stomach the Church. It was one factor in a process that started many, many year prior. It's also the recent one that people still remember, so it's a convenient scapegoat.

 

[Mensch1351]

What a load of pure unmitigated bulldust!

Here is the hint for ya fella,

Dumbo also believed that the "magic feather" he held in his trunk enabled him to fly.

Dorothy (from The wizard of Oz fame) believed that at the end of all her trials on the yellow brick road would bring her back to her loved ones when, in actual fact, she possessed the tools ( the ruby slippers) to make it happen all a long.

Sure, by all means grip and cling tightly to your myth, your fairytale. Do and believe what ever you need to to bolster your courage and strength or use it to merely dull your reasoning like an opiate.
Relinquish responsibility for your self and the your impact on the world around you and languish in the mental subterfuge of "it must be gods will".
After all if society hits the skids and the world starts to destruct that just brings you god damned nut cases all the closer to rapture, right.

First of all the last part of your post assumes things I did not say or mean. I believe faith makes me VERY responsible to my world -- you need to read a lot of the posts I've put on here. Giving myself over to a power greater than self neither excuses me from taking no action to "love my neighbor as myself" or blaming God or God's will when I cannot explain why things don't go MY way! I do not belong to a "sect" that tells you to park your brains in the Baptismal font. Our church does not teach about the "rapture" as being literal truth (as much of the book of Revelation cannot be taken literally!) My goal in responding to Tsunami's post (or Nick8's)was not to argue the finer points of religion. Maybe the Moderators need to add another "option" on LPSG for religion itself instead of our having to post stuff to the "etc. etc." category. But when the OP's or responders post "Anti-" Christian rhetoric that lumps all Christians into the same category as "child abusers" or of the Fundamentalist bull crap ilk then I post assuming that the judgment against my "myth" and "fairytale" needs a fair and balanced response.

I have met those who live the Schlitz beer commercial message, "You only go around once, so you gotta grab all the gusto you can get," crowd. Good luck! This life is soooooooooo short, and human-kind's longing to believe in something that will outlast our finiteness may cause some of us to cling to whatever hope we can find beyond the finality of the grave. My faith connects me to all believers of the past and the believers of the future. I do not merely, "strut and fret my hour upon the stage and then is heard no more." My faith tells me I HAVE purpose for being here (and no it isn't to hasten the end of the world, but to embrace the world with the same love and forgivness Christ came to bring humanity). The American Christian expression of faith as displayed by the Fundamentalists too often is centered around judgment rather than love and peace! As a friend told me many years ago, "Beware of those who preach about the love of Christ with clenched fists!"
Furthermore my faith allows me to bury my friends & loved ones and face the stone cold hard reality of death with a message of HOPE. Myth?? We'll see. That indeed is the crux of faith itself, "the conviction of things 'NOT' seen!" (or proven). The reality of death certainly needs no proof to be a truth! You bet I will indeed cling to my "load of pure unmitigated bulldust." Not just because of it's FINAL message of hope over the varied chapters of my life, but because my "bulldust" has built hospitals for the sick, provided food & shelter for the homeless, nurtured orphans with love, reached out to those whose lives have been destroyed by disaster (it's called the Red CROSS for a reason!), built homes for the aged and infirmed, advocated for the poor, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Just haven't seen many "Mother Theresa" types among the atheists & agnostics!

And for those who simply believe that "humanity" itself has the potential WITHOUT something greater than self ---- as far as I can tell, we haven't progressed much since Cain first slew his brother Abel!!

 

[umami_tsunami]

You are one angry dude aren't you??? !!

Not at all. I’m offended that religion makes supernatural, unsubstantiated claims and begs immunity from criticism. I’m offended that religion seeks to impose ideology on our public discourse and hijacks progress. I’m offended that religion denigrates and oppresses women.

"Religion is contemptable!"

Yes. You misspelled, it but you’re getting the idea.

So let's talk spirituality. I would be extremely interested to know whether or not you believe in the conscience -- you know -- that little voice inside of you that tells you: "ooooh no, don't do THAT because it's BAD" or "oh yeah, now THAT'S good!" That little voice that beats you up so badly when you screw up and calls you stupid, stupid, stupid. That little voice that when you do something you are proud of says, "hey pal -- goooood job!" Do you have that?

I have a very clear idea of wrong and right. I have never needed spiritual or divine guidance to understand the difference. I have thoughtfulness, empathy, reason, compassion and decent observational abilities. My values and behavior are dictated by these things. I care for myself, my family, the earth and my community.

Is it likely that humans have evolved over the last 100,000 or so years to be generally cooperative, compassionate and community oriented because it benefits us and advances our social framework? I think it’s highly likely. It's certainly more likely than the hand of an invisible creator inserting this into the human brain. We are beginning to understand more and more about consciousness, brain science and morality. The more we know, the more preposterous religion gets.

Then in heaven's name, what STANDARD do you apply to what is ultimately Good and what is ultimately Evil? What boundaries guide you in any sense of moral behavior and determining when something may deceivingly SEEM good and beneficial, but is ultimately destructive?

The standard I apply is outlined above: Human and animal well being, a sound and healthy planet, a cooperative and benevolent social system that maximizes happiness. I need no iron age book. I need no guidance from a clergyman.

Are you saying that if it were not for your belief in Jesus Christ, you would be morally adrift? You would not be able to stop yourself from immorality? From committing violent, criminal acts?

I find it amusing that the states with the highest rates of Christian belief also have the highest rates of gun ownership (and gun violence), the highest prison populations and greater numbers of death row inmates (pretty high percentage of believers there too, I’m afraid).

I would be willing to bet that YOU YOURSELF set whatever standards or boundaries of behavior guide your life.

You would win that bet.

And that those standards are just filled with inconsistencies. The very first pages of Genesis tell the story of how humankind really wanted to be more fully "like God" in the pure knowledge of good and evil! EGO "Easing God Out!" And replacing it with self! I would purport that you ARE a believer -- in yourself -- period............and if the world were made just a little more in YOUR image it would be so much a better place!

My values change and grow. I don’t think the same way I did 20 years ago. Genesis is gibberish. Complete twaddle. If you want to bring in Old Testament, then things get dramatically worse; Slavery, stonings, killing your children. Really great ways to live.

Most Christians behave in opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And just one more thought........if religion offends rational, reasonable thinking --- so does love!!

Well, you might be right there, but it has nothing to do with religion!

 

[The Dragon]

*sigh*

Another screaming fundi hysteric and another addition to the ignore list.

 

[Klingsor]

Don't abbreviate history. People turning away from the Church or seeing it only as a cultural expression exploded in the aftermath of Vatican II, when people used a moment of confusion to dismember the parts of Church teaching they didn't care for. You make it sound like everyone was pious, completely faithful Catholics until the sex scandal hit, and boom, suddenly none of them can stomach the Church. It was one factor in a process that started many, many year prior. It's also the recent one that people still remember, so it's a convenient scapegoat.

So pedophile priests are not the problem--the real culprits are people who decide they can no longer believe every single thing the Catholic Church tells them?

Wow.

 

[EllieP]

I'm thinking that the folks who heard the command "Go, therfore, and make disciples of all nations," didn't understand the method he meant. They sort of tacked on their own suffix "at all costs."

I'm of the belief that if there is a divine creator who truly cares about mankind then the way we live in this society will not matter one whit after we are dead. If there is an everlasting soul then it is not held accountable for the body's decay.

Otherwise, this divine game of journeying through life in perfect order is a sick one. "Let's teach the rats how to go through the maze and we'll reward the ones who do it right."

I believe in a message of love. I believe in not hurting others. It's not a divine message I'm following - it just makes for good survival.

I've only been robbed of my possessions twice. But I'm mugged by religious representatives only a weekly basis. I don't need to have my ears raped by somebody who can memorize quotes. It's very difficult to make a Christian understand that if I do not believe in your book that quoting from it is going to have any effect.

It's a good book. I've read it cover to cover a few times. I mean really read it. It doesn't make any sense reading lines from it. Read it again: it's got everything: violence, sex, more violence, murder, treachery, love, forgiveness, vengeance, more sex, incest, everything. How someone can make sense and cobble a cohesive set of beliefs from such a rambling tome is a miracle in itself.

So, you are welcome to pray for me. Please don't ask me to pray with you. I've heard the word, ok? Now leave me the hell alone.

As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

[BIGBULL29]

@joyboytoy

I do not think that you understood what I was saying in my last post (was tired and could have been a bit clearer)

Hitler was representative of Germany in the sense the world saw the country as nation of Nazis, even though we know that many Germans were opposed to to the its philosophy and despicable actions.

I find that most religions are cult-like, and that includes some Christians denominations/sects (not sure where I was contradicting myself). Also, I do not belong to any branch of Christianity. But I think that some Christian and Buddhist sects do not qualify as cult-like/complete nonsensical as they have sound moral teachings all while giving their followers a real sense of hope and inspiration without any sense of "mind-control".

Take care, buddy!:smile:

 

[BIGBULL29]

Just because stories in religions like Christianity with a "god" seem far-fetched does not disprove the existence of a god or creator. The argument that it seems highly unlikely still not

To me, it is sillier to think that a Big Bang created the universe, or that the world and all of its order just occurred by accident, than it is to believe in the Adam and Eve story.

Big Bang Theory is illogical because:

1) there can never be nothing (darkness is still something that supposedly preceded the Big Bang).

2) an effect with no cause?

Scientists who ponder the origins of the universe know nothing. They've hopelessly been speculating over time, unable to even get the train on the tracks to start toward their destination. Add they are always forced to "rethink" their theories after so many years, as is the case of Blackholes (cannot explain them with current laws of physics - not in the least).

The fact is that the universe is and remains completely and utterly mysterious, without a speck of it in infinity being understood by science. Yes, 2 + 2 = 4 on Earth, but in the universe it doesn't. Scientists just cannot accept the inifinite limitations of their own minds.

 

[cruztbone]

how wonderful that yet another so called Christian screamed at Obama in LA that he was the antichrist and god was actually president. so, that not only got Obama more votes in LA but more money for his campaign as well. and , on top of that, he paid $250 to get into the fundraiser. i just love it. the born again bozos are literally screwing themselves into the political ground and making Obama's reelection easier. thanks guys and gals!

 

[EllieP]

After many years of disuse the abandoned farm was finally purchased by another farmer. The farmer toiled long and hard to get the land back to a thriving condition, and after many, many months the fields finally sported the first amber grains in many seasons.

The parson from the nearby church paid the farmer a visit and beheld the bounty before him. He proclaimed to the farmer, "Isn't it beautiful what The Lord and you have wrought?"

The farmer leaned on the fence post, spit on the ground and then replied, "Yeah, but you shoulda seen how he was keeping it before I came along."

 

[Redwyvre]

This thread reminds me of the the saying "Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell. Spiritually is for people who've been there." The people who spent time with this demon, or I should say preacher, have been through hell and that makes me sad. Time-outs work very effectively for most kids.
When I was in 1st grade the teacher spanked certain kids. I was slapped with a ruler for touching the hallway walls. Just hated that. Our family moved to a different state while I was in the 2nd grade. After that I never saw anyone get slapped or a spanking. I thought it was illegal to paddle, slap, and/or hit kids. Must be one of those things that varies state to state.

 

[hot-rod]

Don't you think that all "religions" are cults. They all started out that way. They are all man-made. How do we call scriblings written by plain old men "scriptures". These people weren't gods. Humans aren't saints. No such thing as a saint.