Another look at the Immigration Issue

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_VinylBoy, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    There's a lot of talk going on about the new laws in Arizona, but this particular story involves a completely different state and a rather unique case.

    A 19-year-old Harvard biology student, who has been in the United States unlawfully since he was 4 years old, was detained at a Texas airport this week and is fighting deportation to his native Mexico. The problem here is that he's also a Harvard student on a full scholarship. It's pretty obvious that he didn't sneak across the border himself... that is, unless you think they're training Mexicans how to avoid border control when they are toddlers. And it's obvious that he isn't a "drain to the system" as so many people who are now targeting immigrants are claiming.

    US may deport Harvard student - The Boston Globe

    So, what would you do in this case? Should he be allowed to stay or would you deport him?
     
  2. Northland

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    Technically it could be said he's drained the system. He's on a full scholarship, some kid born here or brought in legally could have won that financial boon. (and I am sure the Tea Potters will see it that way)

    I am curious how he got his Social Security Number- or is it a fake or stolen? Did he register for the draft? How do his parents/guardians support themselves and with what means did they raise him- clothing, food, housing etc.

    I would not deport him or whoever raised him, seeing as that they did a wonderful job and made sure he was properly educated. If it turns out there was financial fakery (to collect benefits over the years) then have those responsible, i.e. parents/guardians pay it back. The scholarship; however, is his. He clearly earned it and there's no reason to penalize him for the actions (done with love) of another.
     
  3. HazelGod

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    Why hasn't this brainiac taken it upon himself to become a naturalized citizen? He's been eligible to apply for more than a year now.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Perhaps he didn't know that he was brought to this country illegally? I mean, it's not as if there's a major immigration problem in Massachusetts. Also, doesn't it take a little longer than a year to go through the process?
     
  5. sbat

    sbat New Member

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    You know, if he gets deported, you've given yet another potentially productive human being an incentive to become a terrorist.
     
  6. D_Relentless Original

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    Why?
     
  7. Bbucko

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    Actually, though I can't speak knowledgeably about matters in Boston in 2010, I know for a fact that there were thousands of illegal Irish men and women living there in the mid-90s. I met one who introduced me to an entire "second society" living in Southie and Charlestown, though single women always felt safest in the North End, where word-of-mouth filled vacant apartments quickly and easily.

    There is also a sizable Dominican population living in Lawrence (hiding in plain sight among the Puerto Ricans) and large concentrations of Brazilians living in the traditionally Portuguese-speaking cities of Taunton and Fall River.

    My "special interest" in Latinos made me privy to these clandestine communities :cool:
     
  8. Bbucko

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    That's borderline insane, sbat: completely devoid of logic.

    Someone with the mental and social skills required to attain a full scholarship to Harvard is hardly a potential terrorist. You'd never say the same thing about a French Canadian.
     
  9. scotchirish

    scotchirish Member

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    Well for one he was raised in San Antonio, and the article said that he lost his Mexican passport and tried to use his Mexican consulate card to board the plane. I'd say he obviously knew he wasn't a US citizen.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    But does that really change anything?
    He didn't ask to come here. It's not as if he could have told his parents at the age of four that what they were doing was wrong and they should have left him at home in Mexico. And it's obvious that he's not a delinquent... no criminal record, and also earned a Harvard scholarship.

    IMO, it would be foolish to deport the kid.
     
  11. scotchirish

    scotchirish Member

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    I agree that those facts don't change much about the situation overall, just that he obviously knew he was an illegal. I agree that in this situation we would all be better served by letting him remain in the country but for the most part I usually feel that anyone who is identified as an illegal immigrant should be deported. I'm not going to bitch about them "taking our jobs" or "draining our economy," my issue is strictly that they are here illegally, that should be black and white, no grey. And yes, i think we should make it much easier for people to get in our country legally, even the squatters just on the other side of the river.
     
  12. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    I'm no fan of all of the nativist/racist crap coming from the soon-to-die-of-old-age teabaggers, but yes it does change things... This 'kid' is an adult and he obviously knows he's not a legal US citizen... Why not apply to be a citizen or at least for a student visa? By even applying and getting on the list, he escapes the risk of deportation. And given that he was class valedictorian and is now attending Harvard, an immigration judge would have to be an asshole of epic proportions to deny his app and deport him. Instead, this supposedly smart kid tried flying under the radar and got busted. His fault.

    It's like BP thinking they could get away with flouting regulations when drilling for oil. They could have done it the right way, and made a shit-ton of money off that well. But instead, they tried to cut corners to make that extra little bit of profit, and now they are paying dearly for cheating... I have no sympathy for cheaters, nor for those too stupid to just do it right in the first place. Especially not when doing it the right way is easily figured out, as was the case here.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Really now... "cheating"? Talk about taking this to an extreme.
    I usually agree with many of the things you say around here, but that is a major stretch. The kid was here since the age of four because of his parents, not because he snuck over the border himself. The fact that he didn't apply to become a citizen or get a student visa when he turned 18 is a convenient cop-out, especially when you consider the procedure is not as simple as filing an application. Hundreds of thousands of people are denied their Visas yearly even after spending the fees just to apply. Others require the assistance of a good Immigration lawyer, which also costs a lot of money. Where is an eighteen year old supposed to generate that income?

    Nobody is just handed a Harvard scholarship. That is more than substantial proof to me that this kid meant no harm and isn't some kind of criminal that requires deportation. Also, where does any level of common sense come into play here? There's got to be a point where we don't view a 19 year old boy who earned a scholarship to the most prestigious college in the world on the same level as a drug smuggler or an everyday criminal. That just seems a bit too desperate for us, as Americans, to adhere to just to give the illusion of being tough on immigrants.
     
  14. HazelGod

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    Thank you...that was exactly what I meant with my earlier response. I wasn't asking why he hadn't completed the process, but why as an adult with knowledge of his status had he not even begun it.
     
  15. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    What took place 15 years ago is irrelevant. He's an adult, and obviously an intelligent and educated one.


    For him, yes it is...

    Can't be that hard... I just found the Student Visa application in about 45 seconds...
    https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/f1-student-visa.html

    And the Citizenship application in even less time...
    https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/citizenship-application.html

    Both give clear indication that this guy would qualify. All he had to do was apply. And again, this person is already enrolled at Harvard, and would obviously have no trouble at all being endorsed by the school... The odds of his application being denied are nil.


    And how many of them are students at Harvard, and can have an institution like that vouch for them?

    How could common sense NOT come into play? The guy is here illegally and he obviously knew it. Why he chose to do nothing about it is something only he can answer.

    This is intellectually dishonest. First of all, he is not a "boy", he is a 19yr old man who is old enough to join the military, own property, a business, etc... Furthermore, nobody is charging him with federal crimes for drug trafficking, murder or any other felony, so you can give up on the red herrings. All that happened is an ADULT who is not in this country legally, was caught and now ICE will have to figure out what to do with him...

    I really can't imagine him not getting a student visa or residency status while he goes through the process of naturalization... But if he gets deported, it's on him, not on the rest of society.
     
  16. sbat

    sbat New Member

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    Not sure if you've ever been in a situation where a very bright future was suddenly snatched away from you and you were sent to a place with far less certain prospects. The emotional effect and the ill-will that would be generated towards the American system that did this to you is far from rational.

    Additionally, the very brightest human beings are also the most capable of the most destructive acts, particularly after suffering from life-altering tragic events.

    If I had a full scholarship to Harvard and was deported for some reason to a third world country, my hatred for the people that prosecuted me and the system that empowered them would know no bounds.
     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I think that's what differs between people like you and people like myself (and most likely BBucko). Although I may hold grievances against the individuals who do me wrong, I don't hold grudges against others just because they're part of the same system or group. And somehow, I think this kid (regardless of how things turn out) wouldn't go to such extremes.
     
  18. sbat

    sbat New Member

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    Given the details of the story, I don't think he'll be deported, and even if he did, he probably wouldn't. The proportion of similarly wronged folks that do become terrorists is very very low.

    That said, I'm not for giving people excuses to be terrorists. I'm not sure what your personal history is with serious economic strife, or life in the third world, but "people like me" can empathize with those who feel helpless anger when they have been productive, law-abiding, and high achieving and because of xenophobia or unreasonable immigration laws, have been forced to leave behind a very promising, prosperous future for life in a shitty third world country and a very uncertain, very very difficult future.

    It's kind of strange that you don't see how people who are wronged (or feel that they are wronged) by agents of a country would harbor a dislike for the country - surely you don't think that the anti-Americanism or terrorism in the world is random and comes from nowhere? I'm not at all saying that these are rational feelings - then again, feelings by nature are irrational.
     
  19. Bbucko

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    My bio's full of situations which, though not strictly comparable, are similar enough for me to know that nothing would turn me into a terrorist.

    I also lived for several years as an illegal alien in France, where I was the sole caregiver for my lover who eventually succumbed to AIDS. Had I been deported before he died, I'd have been devastated, but his death devastated me anyway: I didn't just lose him, I lost our entire life together in Paris with all the hopes and dreams that brought me there in the first place. Coming home left me in ruins and took years to repair, but I never considered a life of criminality nor did I allow bitterness to take over my life, despite the intensity of my personal loss.

    I don't know you, sbat, but if you truly think that a terrible twist of fate could lead you to becoming a terrorist, or that you'd blame entire groups of people whom you've never met for the inevitable tragedies that will come into your life, you seriously need some quality time of introspection and reassessment of your priorities. Something's just not right there.
     
  20. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Oh, I can see the connection. But It's like I said before... I hold individuals accountable for their actions, not entire groups. If I walked through a group of people who didn't like me because I was gay, it's the few that yell the slurs or even try to physically assault me that I take grievance with and not the onlookers. I tend to view those who symbolically hate a particular group in the same light as those who overpraise it. Overzealousness in any shape or form is not healthy.

    But to get back to your point, I'm more than sure this incident would be the fuel that some would need to help accessorize their "I Hate America" rhetoric. But as long as we can keep these chants to a mere murmur and focus on the real issue then we'll be fine.
     
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