I'm one of your admirers here Jon. But this thread has gone off the rails and I'm surprised that you fell into that trap. Some of us may have misunderstood what you are asking. The 3 options are:
1) Do you find other guys attractive? = Do you get hot for guys?
2) Do you find other guys attractive? = Do you know/care if a guy is attractive.
3) Do you find other guys attractive? = Do you have close emotional relationships with guys?
I mean "attraction". If someone is attracted to another person it can be at a lot of levels. I don't think many straight guys understand that. They think of attraction as only sexual/physical. I think that some men think that attraction to a woman is the only permissible way, but the reality is that we're attracted to people all the time. How else would we be able to know the difference between friend and foe?
Some of the straight guys here would answer yes to all three questions. Others would answer yes to only 2 out of 3. Others have answered yes to only 1 out of 3. Some might answer no to all 3. There are 6 possible combinations! What fascinates me is that the answers can be different and still fall into the broad category of "straight".
What I think is even more interesting is the quality of the "attachments" or affection between men. We have seen in this single thread a range from revulsion to obliviousness to brotherly love. Wow! So thanks Jon and you other guys for exposing this great variation in the experience of the "typical straight guy".
Here's a link to a graph of the sexual orientation of all self declared LSPG members.
http://www.lpsg.org/attachments/127...ng-update-lpsg_sexual_preference_20110120-jpg
I usually enjoy your incisive analysis Jon. Your grasp of the power relations between the sexes is refreshing. Your background is unique, and from your educated perch you survey the rest of us with a cool and usually dispassionate gaze. I don't think bisexuality is the topic of this thread, but admit it, it gives you a great perspective on both sexes. Many other people don't have the benefit of this broad perspective. When you ask for their point of view and they respond honestly, it is a real bonus to all members of LPSG to learn the intimate thoughts and desires of men and women who are by definition not the same as you or me. That is why I feel sorry that you have passed judgement on these opinions as uneducated and uncivilized. The straight guys are trying to explain that in the race for a mate they must discern who is friend or foe. This is true for gay men too. They also have to compete for a place in the hierarchy of attractiveness. Gay guys do this too.
But think of a football team. For a young guy to advance his career, his earning power, his circle of friends, his attractiveness, he has to team up with mentors, team mates and supporters. Guys can do this strategically by forming alliances with power brokers, by forming gangs, or by beating other guys at their own game. I suspect that you know this. When the stakes include female attention the games can get pretty intense.
You have raised the alternative proposition of attachments between guys based on affiliation or "attraction"
rather than competition. I guess this happens even on the football field and in the locker room - Male Bonding, friendship, brotherly or fatherly relationships, and one of the most common threads here on LPSG is the question about
"Is it straight to... need-to-be-around / look-at / be-jealous-of / touch / share-my-girl-with / suck-off / JO-with my roommate / boss / colleague / GF's ex / neighbor / best friend etc?"
Let's face it, many people don't just view the spectrum of 100% straight <-> 100% gay as a horizontal line, many people view it as a hierarchy, with the straight end very much at the top.
If a guy believes that you threaten his position in the hierarchy (
"that's so gay") he'll probably not react kindly.
One of the things I learned about this so-called "discussion" is that some men seem to leap to defensive posturing almost immediately. They don't take the time to look inside themselves and analyze their own motivations, fears and presuppositions. It seems that self-analysis is considered weak or of no value.
I've had very close relationships with guys in high school, college, and now in my twenties. These guys love and care about me. We are close and value our connections with each other. We are not in competition with each other for "chicks". We support and cherish our friendship. We do not primarily identified as gay and we don't want to have sex with each other. But we do love each other.
You have the very fortunate position of being (born?) at the top or near the top of the heirachy. So with your looks, education, personality, strong family background - guys are gonna be attracted to YOU. They will look better by association. Their aim is to stand on the shoulders of a giant. Think of the football team - they wanna play alongside the best players. Unless they think you are out to knock them down. In which case the knives come out!
This attitude also seems to be prevalent among working class and uneducated men.... Anger and fear become the main tools for attack.
Hmm, remember you are speaking from a position of privilege. As a very attractive young bisexual guy you have the ability to both compete with straight guys for women and seduce guys who might not be straight. If guys feel threatened, you might respond with a bit more generosity.
Why do straight guys have to prove anything? No one is asking for that. But inevetably it arises and the pissing contest begins.
I think I know what you are getting at though. Many of us guys here have formed strong emotional attachments with other guys, not (just) based on sex, but on things like support, sharing, intimacy, trust and honesty. Some of these "relationships" exist in the real world and some just here on LPSG. Same thing. So if you are inviting guys to reveal this intimate stuff, don't slam the door in their faces.
It's almost like a game. "I arrive in your space. Challenge you to a fight. And try to verbally destroy you." That wasn't the purpose of this thread, but that is exactly what it turned into.
Admit it, you contributed to that.
...typical. Men have a long way to go to learn how to be civilized and compassionate. I don't expect that to happen any time soon, at least from this discussion.
You opened the door with this thread, why not extend a hand and help a couple of guys through to the world of emotional openness and sensitivity. I know you can do it. I've seen you do it before in other threads. I guess HungNineBud said it better than me.
I also have to say that I think the race issue in this thread is a red herring. It's irrelevant. The expression "down low" might have originated in the black community but the behaviour is not at all exclusive to that race.
