Another 'switcharoo' by Obama and the gang

B_starinvestor

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Wow.

I don't even know what to make of your post.

A Black president was not anywhere near "unthinkable".

The only reason that we have a black president is that Bush screwed up so badly?

Did you realize how racist that paragraph was when you typed it?

Tri,

I think he was alluding to the fact that Jackson, Keyes, etc. never got anywhere.

I agree that the Democrats won mostly on the premise that Bush 2nd term was a disaster; and people wanted a 'change.'

Not taking anything away from Obama; but Hillary would have won had she been on that ticket as well. The dems could have put a half dozen people in there that would have won out over the GOP and 'Bush III'
 

AllHazzardi

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I have. And you're still wrong.
You forget... HG also thinks you're an idiot. And who just happened to start the thread that Indy was responding to that lead to the response that you're now cheering? I had no idea that you were the type to applaud your own discrediting. Congratulations!!!!

But thanks for playing "EPIC FAIL". Don't forget your Rice-A-Roni on your way out! :rolleyes:


Let's see....

Indy: "Try Again"
HG: Actually, don't. Get back on your tired-ass one-trick pony and ride off into oblivion.
Star: Another Scorned Obama drone

Indy said try again, HG said don't, just leave to star, star responded calling HG a scorned obama drone.

So... exactly where is this cheering you speak of? HG was commenting on IS's "Try Again" comment to which Star replied by calling HG a scorned obama drone.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic.



My outlook on the entire situation is that Obama does not have business, market, economic, etc experience, so he must rely on his cabinet and advisors to fill in the gaps of his knowledge. This is not normally a problem, but in this case, those cabinet members and advisors are for the most part members of the "old way" which Obama is attempting to change. The result is what can best be described as a conflict of interest.

With these bail-outs, caps on salary, terms of repayment, terms of receipt of loans, inflation, gas prices rising, and so on, I think people should take a step back and look at this as evidence of exactly how much trouble capitalism runs into.
 

B_starinvestor

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Let's see....

My outlook on the entire situation is that Obama does not have business, market, economic, etc experience, so he must rely on his cabinet and advisors to fill in the gaps of his knowledge. This is not normally a problem, but in this case, those cabinet members and advisors are for the most part members of the "old way" which Obama is attempting to change. The result is what can best be described as a conflict of interest.

With these bail-outs, caps on salary, terms of repayment, terms of receipt of loans, inflation, gas prices rising, and so on, I think people should take a step back and look at this as evidence of exactly how much trouble capitalism runs into.

First paragraph is on the money, Allhaz.

2nd paragraph - in this cycle, capitalism ran into trouble because market-established underwriting guidelines were manipulated.

People that shouldn't have been buying houses - were, and big ones at that. It created an unbelievable snowball effect that imploded.

Had those underwriting guidelines been left alone, we would not be in this terrible mess.

There are always going to be cycles, trends, dips and dives, but the flaw isn't capitalism in and of itself. The flaw is tinkering with it to achieve political agendas and introducing artificial bugs that disease the system.
 

B_Morning_Glory

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And they thought Bush was a liar... :rolleyes:

HE was and HE [bush] was ALSO the BIGGEST dam liar that ever held office. and still is nothing but a snake in the grass. and holds the record on lies. his but buddy VP. comes in a close second. THANK GOD FOR THE DEMOCRATS AGAIN. :smile::smile:
 
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sparky11point5

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I think this issue about qualifications is really laughable. (In the sense that there is some golden threshold that Obama does not meet, not that we don't need competence in the Chief Executive.) We have had Presidents with outstanding credentials, such as Hoover, and fairly modest accomplishments, like Kennedy. Note the different results :)

Bush only succeeded in one 'business' getting the taxpayers of Texas to *build a stadium and allow him (and the other owners of the Texas Rangers) to sell it and keep the profits. I guess he was an experienced con man. Yes, he had and MBA, so do I, and I always knew that would be no real help when he was first elected.

Personally, I never hire people based on background only, but on intelligence, good decision making, and a process for accomplishing a goal, not an iron-clad ideology. I voted this way, too, bitches.
 

AllHazzardi

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First paragraph is on the money, Allhaz.

2nd paragraph - in this cycle, capitalism ran into trouble because market-established underwriting guidelines were manipulated.

People that shouldn't have been buying houses - were, and big ones at that. It created an unbelievable snowball effect that imploded.

Had those underwriting guidelines been left alone, we would not be in this terrible mess.

There are always going to be cycles, trends, dips and dives, but the flaw isn't capitalism in and of itself. The flaw is tinkering with it to achieve political agendas and introducing artificial bugs that disease the system.

2nd paragraph - Not quite what I meant. Every system has flaws, holes, broken bits that don't seem to fit anywhere like a shelf from Ikea. The current situation makes a good example of how things can go wrong, why they go wrong, and exactly which stick NOT to pull out in the game of economic KerPlunk.

The problem with capitalism in and of itself is that it is a system which is designed to take money from one group and bring it to another, this exchange can only balance when there is no expansion, profit, or improvement of any kind on the part of either, because all of these things shift it away from balance like a wobbly washing machine. The more unbalanced they become, the more violent the cycle becomes to compensate, much like the hurricane season and strength of storms.

In a system where the goal for everyone is to make a buck on every transaction, the result is some are lifted above the average (those deemed "successful") and others drop below the average (those deemed "unsuccessful"). This has to happen because of a simple physical law that can be applied to economics; conservation of energy(in this case, wealth). That is to say, in order for anyone to take a step up, someone else must have an equal and opposite reaction, a step down. There is no more wealth in the world than there was a thousand years ago.

So in other words, the big flaw in capitalism is that it drives people further and further apart, rather than bringing them closer together. This problem becomes exacerbated by this distancing, first heated battles, then violence, and in the worst case war.

The question is, what do we do about it? Do we try to fix it? Do we avoid making any changes for fear of a collapse? Or do we just abandon the ship and make a better system?


Let's say you have a car that's very old. The engine is temperamental, the key sometimes get stuck, the wheel has a bend in it, the hub-caps are missing, and the coolant system leaks.

You could always avoid jostling any aspect of it, carefully start it up, make sure not to put the key in the position which it gets stuck in, avoid trying to steer with your hand on the bend, avoid grazing any curbs, and don't drive for long periods or without spare coolant in the trunk. You'd do just fine, but it'd take a lot of effort.

You could also try fixing it. Fixing the engine would take a lot of work and cost, fixing the keyhole not so much but I'm sure some mechanic would be happy to charge you plenty, buy a new steering wheel, buy new hubcaps, and fix the coolant system. You'd do just fine, but it'd take a lot of money.

You could also replace it. All things considered, given the price of parts for old vehicles, it'd probably be a good idea. You'd do just fine, you'd spend less money and effort, and you'd have a new car loaded with newer technology.



Now, given those considerations, which sounds better, avoiding disturbing the balance of the conditions, expending large amounts of money to fix the balance so those disturbances aren't as dangerous, or just putting a new and more effective system in place which has less flaws.

In the end, the system will work fine regardless of which choice you make, but the solution which is the most efficient in the long view is often the best one. The more efficient in this case being the one which takes the least work and resources to create and requires the least reinvestment of resources and work in order to continue.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Let's see....

Indy: "Try Again"
HG: Actually, don't. Get back on your tired-ass one-trick pony and ride off into oblivion.
Star: Another Scorned Obama drone

Indy said try again, HG said don't, just leave to star, star responded calling HG a scorned obama drone.

So... exactly where is this cheering you speak of? HG was commenting on IS's "Try Again" comment to which Star replied by calling HG a scorned obama drone.

You obviously don't know HG. Look through some of his previous posts where he's addressed starinvestor. You'll see that he's also sick of starinvestor's antics on this board. Please tell me I'm not the only person paying attention to a poster's repeated patterns around here?

Back to your regularly scheduled topic.

Indeed... but I ran out of Rice-A-Roni. Would you accept a bottle of Turtle Wax instead? :rolleyes: :biggrin:
 

AllHazzardi

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You obviously don't know HG. Look through some of his previous posts where he's addressed starinvestor. You'll see that he's also sick of starinvestor's antics on this board. Please tell me I'm not the only person paying attention to a poster's repeated patterns around here?



Indeed... but I ran out of Rice-A-Roni. Would you accept a bottle of Turtle Wax instead? :rolleyes: :biggrin:

Seriously, what don't you get about this? Step by step version

Industrial said: Try Again

Hazel said to Star based on the above comment: Actually, don't. Get back on your tired-ass one-trick pony and ride off into oblivion.

Star said to Hazel after Hazel had said the above: Another scorned Obama drone



PS
Maybe you should be using Naruto as your avatar and not Kakashi
 

B_VinylBoy

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Seriously, what don't you get about this? Step by step version

Industrial said: Try Again

Hazel said to Star based on the above comment: Actually, don't. Get back on your tired-ass one-trick pony and ride off into oblivion.

Star said to Hazel after Hazel had said the above: Another scorned Obama drone

You don't think I understand what you're saying? My GOD, can we look past the thread here and look at people's actions on this board? All I'm saying is that if you actually knew HazelGod, you would know that his comment in this thread wasn't geared toward Obama like starinvestor assumed.

Don't believe me? Why don't we look at some of his posts in regards to starinvestor from three other threads:
http://www.lpsg.org/137024-prepare-healthcare-abuse-nth-degree-4.html#post2174523
http://www.lpsg.org/137241-letterman-joke-about-black-man.html#post2174659
http://www.lpsg.org/133616-time-outs-snot-nosed-brats-11.html#post2172495

I rest my case. But yeah, if you still want to agree with starinvestor that's entirely up to you. I won't hate you for that, but I reserve the right to stare lewdly at you from a distance.

Maybe you should be using Naruto as your avatar and not Kakashi

Only if you assume the role of Ryoga Hibiki. And yes, I know that isn't a Naruto reference... but it's quite relevant here. And BTW, Naruto does eventually save all of Konoha and helps to bring Kakashi back to life after he dies in battle. Sorry if I'm spoiling the story line for you... :rolleyes:
 

ZOS23xy

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Wondering if we should approach the mods to implement an entire new forum "Obama's lies" as there is enough material to support thousands of threads; and hell, we're only into the fifth month of this circus.:smile:

Yes, five months of looking at your generally wonkered and bonkered threads and claiming that everything Obama does is based on a lie (that's your lie)...a thread just for you under "My favorite delusions" would be in order.
 

B_Nick8

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So much cross talk going on.

So, here's my .02. I want compensation limits on any company that's taken my tax dollars in a bailout. Check. I don't want government-mandated limits on other companies but I do want shareholders to have much more say in CEO compensation packages and to have legislation guaranteeing that, to me, is the best way to ensure that happens. Even if it's non-binding, the Board is put on notice and is more likely to respond or be voted out if it doesn't. Check.

And if, in fact, Obama were to unilaterally limit all such compensation, wouldn't the Starman be screaming "SOCIALISM!!" and we'd have to be wearily debating in that thread? It's too tedious to even think about.
 

seterwind

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You know what is sad. The fact the conservatives have won. I say this because perhaps it is the "liberal" mindset but personally I prefer to not be biased. You see being biased is seen as bad to me, so I humor Star, and the likes views. But that in itself is the poison. We pay attention to them and they won't stop. They plant seeds in us, trying to find the worst in the president, because we don't want to blindly follow him.

We justify ourselves to them, every accused "liberal"/"obamabot" has. We don't need to. But that is what makes them win, it's why Bush was so "successful" and got a second, it's why for a flippin BJ Clinton was kicked out. I mean heck why do we, the supporters of Obama even believe that TARP was a bank bailout plan.

-----Link to Government making a profit off of TARP ----

PolitiFact | Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks

These people who do nothing but work so hard to make sure we have at least a seed of doubt in our elected officials, simply so that if he makes a large enough mistake we'll be willing to crucify him for it. Yet Bush was able to do so much wrong and we felt powerless. It's very sickening.

I just hope that if Obama ends up getting a BJ from a fat lady, we can all point and laugh and go "Hey at least he didn't get 4K Americans killed. He's done a good job so far a little adultry ain't so bad."
 

B_starinvestor

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So much cross talk going on.

So, here's my .02. I want compensation limits on any company that's taken my tax dollars in a bailout. Check. I don't want government-mandated limits on other companies but I do want shareholders to have much more say in CEO compensation packages and to have legislation guaranteeing that, to me, is the best way to ensure that happens. Even if it's non-binding, the Board is put on notice and is more likely to respond or be voted out if it doesn't. Check.

And if, in fact, Obama were to unilaterally limit all such compensation, wouldn't the Starman be screaming "SOCIALISM!!" and we'd have to be wearily debating in that thread? It's too tedious to even think about.

Nick, if you don't approve of the executive's compensation, don't buy the stock.

That's how you cast your vote, beeeeyooch.
 

D_Tully Tunnelrat

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Tri,
I think he was alluding to the fact that Jackson, Keyes, etc. never got anywhere.

I agree that the Democrats won mostly on the premise that Bush 2nd term was a disaster; and people wanted a 'change.'

Thanks SI. It was in no way intended as racist, but simply to illuminate how improbable it would have been considered to have a black man win the Presidency 15 years ago. In order for that to happen something had to radically change (for the better in this case). Chris Rock put it best: "George Bush fucked up so bad, he made it possible for a black man to be President."

Frankly, I always thought we'd have a white woman President first. Since Cincy is adjacent to the South, and NC is deep in Dixie, you both know how deep racism can run in those communities, and how Obama's campaign brilliantly overcame it. I thought his speech on racism was probably one of the best speeches, much less political ones, I've ever heard, and opened the door for his winning the Presidency.
 

HazelGod

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We justify ourselves to them, every accused "liberal"/"obamabot" has.

Not every one.

I don't humor these idiots in the least, much less explain myself to them. I call them out for the insufferable, trolling douchebags they are. That so many on here actively choose to respond to them earnestly is a mildly amusing puzzlement to me.

As long as you people keep validating their attention-whoring behavior, they'll keep doing their same bullshit song and dance. When you want it to stop, the ignore function is but a click away.
 

Trinity

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You know what is sad. The fact the conservatives have won. I say this because perhaps it is the "liberal" mindset but personally I prefer to not be biased. You see being biased is seen as bad to me, so I humor Star, and the likes views. But that in itself is the poison. We pay attention to them and they won't stop. They plant seeds in us, trying to find the worst in the president, because we don't want to blindly follow him.

We justify ourselves to them, every accused "liberal"/"obamabot" has. We don't need to. But that is what makes them win, it's why Bush was so "successful" and got a second, it's why for a flippin BJ Clinton was kicked out. I mean heck why do we, the supporters of Obama even believe that TARP was a bank bailout plan.

-----Link to Government making a profit off of TARP ----

PolitiFact | Obama says government has so far turned a profit on money used to stabilize banks

These people who do nothing but work so hard to make sure we have at least a seed of doubt in our elected officials, simply so that if he makes a large enough mistake we'll be willing to crucify him for it. Yet Bush was able to do so much wrong and we felt powerless. It's very sickening.

I just hope that if Obama ends up getting a BJ from a fat lady, we can all point and laugh and go "Hey at least he didn't get 4K Americans killed. He's done a good job so far a little adultry ain't so bad."

My question is...do you really believe in Tim Geithner's and Obama's Deficit Spending economic plan? Did you read that PolitiFact?

Firstly, Obama only approved those banks to repay because he needed some cover because he is suffering in public opinion on his handling of the economy specifically jobs and the deficit and lack of economic stimulus. Secondly, Obama, Geithner and the Treasury haven't received repayment of $68 billion so there is no profit. Thirdly:
...the government borrowed the money it invested in the banks, and so dividends from the preferred stock are offset by interest the government has had to pay on its loans. But that interest rate has been lower than the 5 percent dividend rate. So when the companies repay the loans, it will result in some profit to the government, banking analysts told us. - PolitiFact
How much lower? When the companies repay the loans it will result in SOME profit...how much profit? What banking analysts? Let's get the OMB to back that up. It is also suggested that an additional profit potential is set to up to help recoup tax payer money:
Treasury announcement on June 9, firms that repay their preferred stock have the right to repurchase those warrants at fair market value. Experts believe that could fetch the government several billion dollars. That's in addition to the dividends. -PolitiFact
That is all if's and when's. No concrete profit or return on investment of Tax Payer money for Bank Bailouts under Tarp has been verified.
David John, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said that while it's accurate to say the government is turning a profit on these specific transactions,it was so costly to create the TARP that "you can't say the overall program is a money-maker."
And, John said, the 10 financial institutions that will be repaying the Treasury are among the strongest. It remains to be seen how the others will fare, he said.

"It's way too soon to judge the entire program," John said. "I'd be surprised if it ends up anything better than break-even." PolitiFact
Finally, listen to Obama himself:
As for Obama's claim, he is careful to note that the overall program could still cost taxpayers money, but he is correct to say the government turned a profit on the first round of repayments.-PolitiFact
TARP is a bailout until it isn't...until we the Tax Payer actually get our money back with a return on investment.

Not every one.

I don't humor these idiots in the least, much less explain myself to them. I call them out for the insufferable, trolling douchebags they are. That so many on here actively choose to respond to them earnestly is a mildly amusing puzzlement to me.

As long as you people keep validating their attention-whoring behavior, they'll keep doing their same bullshit song and dance. When you want it to stop, the ignore function is but a click away.

You humor yourself. Slowly but surely you are finding out about Obama what people had been saying before Nov. 4th. Your childish name calling is really reserved for yourself and you ignore only because you can't really defend your position any more.
 

cruztbone

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socialism is our only hope at the moment. Capitalism is a FAILURE. thank god Obama understands this. The Repugnantcans think only of their wealthy selves and show no interest in the well-being of the masses of working people of the U.S. To hell with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Trinity

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socialism is our only hope at the moment. Capitalism is a FAILURE. thank god Obama understands this. The Repugnantcans think only of their wealthy selves and show no interest in the well-being of the masses of working people of the U.S. To hell with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Socialism is not the answer. What Obama understands is...framing his constant and continual campaign on support of the interests of the masses of working people is not only the way to get elected but the best way to maintain popularity. However Obama hasn't lived up to supporting the interest of working people.

While claiming support for working families, Obama has steadily acted contrary to the well-being of working people. Obama's and his administration outright lied about the AIG bonuses. They protected them, and had Dodd put them in protecting the interests of the wealthly who did not perform in their jobs and therefore did not deserve any bonus from the American Tax Payer. Obama's lack of American job plan in his globalization plans does not help the middle class and working class. Obama's Cap and Trade plans will hurt the working families. Taxes on cigarettes and other sin taxes heavily affect working families. Obama allowed the American Car Industry to fail. Chrysler is not American owned any longer and greatly diminished. And GM is greatly diminished for all the bailout money spent. Both Companies closed thousands of dealerships which have a ripple effect on jobs and the local economies.

Obama administration targets the working class
 

D_Jerry_Atric

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My favorite Obama line is when he talks about "the stimulus will create or save X number of jobs".

How the fuck do you calculate a job saved? If the economy gains 2 million jobs, he can say "hey look, the stimulus created 2 million jobs!" However, if the economy loses 4 million jobs, he can "but if it weren't for the stimulus, we would have lost 6 million jobs!"

He sets up the rules so that no matter what happens, he can declare himself a success.

The media would never have let Bush use a phrase like "create or save" without asking him to clarify. No I did not vote for Bush but I do however think that people should be questioning Obama more unlike how the media and his followers worship him.