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Another uprising in Egypt

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bardox, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Jason

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    This is the nub of the problem with Sharia - it is seen as God's law as revealed through Mohammed and exemplified by the life of Mohammed and cannot be modified or changed in any way, ever. Interpretation is severely restricted. The fundamental idea is "you shall not find a change in Allah's course".

    There are so many issues where the western world has problems with sharia. For example it specifically permits wife beating, it permits child marriage, it makes homosexuality illegal, it makes it illegal to criticise Islam, it allows a range of horrific punishments including stoning and amputation. And a very long and so on! All these issues are beyond any possible modification. Within the area of interpretation may possibly be the marriage of an adult man to a nine year old girl which at least on the face of it is permitted.

    (I can assure you the people I saw in Russia in the 1990s were victims of Marxism. They all had relatives who had gone off to the gulag; they all lived in fear. The defence of Marxism - that somehow the USSR wasn't proper Marxism - is shallow. We have the example of the USSR, China and more than a dozen other Marxist states which were hell holes. Marxism has been tried and has the hundreds of millions of deaths to demonstrate its failure.)
     
  2. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    Very few of the world's 1.5 billion muslims are Wahabbists.

    You're talking nonsense.

    You don't know anything about Marx either.
     
  3. Jason

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    Actually I know quite a lot about Marx and Marxism.
     
  4. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    It doesn't appear so to me.
     
  5. Jason

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    You're not very perceptive, are you?
     
  6. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    I can safely say that you haven't read Capital.
     
  7. cruztbone

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    Underguy, the fact remains that what happened in the USSR was NOT Marxism after the death of Lenin. Stalin had no interest in withering away the state. under his tyranny, marxism was replaced by an oligarchy that ran the economy like an old boys club.

    that is NOT Marxism, and it never was. it was, however, a horrific , endless nightmare for millions of Soviets and the death of some 30-40 million of them.

    and Putin seems determined to bring back those good ol' days, starting with killing all the gays and lesbians, and taking away their children.

    such happy times in Russia. PERFECT atmosphere for a winter wonderland olympics!!! i just cant wait!!!
     
  8. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    There's no evidence of that. Don't believe the western media/political class when it comes to the official enemies.

    Putin's crime is being independent.
     
  9. Jason

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    Well it's four fat volumes. But since you ask I've read quite a bit, both in English and Russian translations.
     
  10. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    Three when I went to university. Have they split it up since?
     
  11. Klingsor

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    Three and a half?

    "At the time of his death (1883) Karl Marx had prepared the manuscript for Capital, Volume IV, a critical history of theories of surplus value of his time, the nineteenth century. The philosopher Karl Kautsky (1854–1938) published a partial edition of Marx's surplus-value critique . . . "
     
  12. Jason

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    The old Soviet system printed many, many editions of Marx, and they did print as four volumes. But you are right Klingsor, volume IV is his notes written up by Kautsky.

    Bits of Marx are reasonably readable. A lot really isn't. It is a response to the problems of the industrial age in the UK and elsewhere and as such has its place in the development of ideas. But the concept of anyone today seeking to follow Marxist thinking, however revised, strikes me as the equivalent of believing in a flat earth. Marx has been proved wrong time and time again. His ideas have been applied in very many nations (including USSR and China) and failed everywhere. The human misery they have created is beyond measure.

    My view is that fascism, Marxism and sharia are three doctrines that need to be rejected absolutely because of the misery they cause. Few people today have personal experience of fascism. Many of course have experience of Marxism, and people who have lived in the states of the former USSR and its empire are mostly horrified by it. The fashion among a few rebels in the affluent west to espouse Marxism is misguided. Most are ignorant (it's a clever -ism that sounds sexy); those who actually know what they are on about are dangerous individuals.
     
  13. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    Capital was a critique of capitalism. It had bugger all to say about 'Marxism'.

    The USSR practised state capitalism. Socialism does work but it is always undermined by the capitalist ruling classes.

    You live in a fascist world order.
     
  14. CokeCanWide

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    From my point of veiw and being in egypt and living the whole thing, i can see there's a huge misunderstand about the egyptians and their experience of democracy and the MB and other muslims.

    Here's some prevailing facts haven't been said :
    1. Egypt is a country with majority of muslims .
    2. We had a revolution in the 25th of January with the with the MB participation.
    3. The SCAF is loyalty to its interests not to the country or anything.
    4. Majority of Military Soldiers are loyal to the country.
    5. The SCAF and its interim government lost about 17 billions of our foreign fund before.
    6. The MB didn't help the revolution way and took the Elections way, unfortunately.
    7. There was 5 major elections have been won by the islamists.
    6. Liberals & Seculars don't have that kind of support.
    7. Morsi won fairly and legally.
    8. The Constitution has been made by the will of people .
    9. The foreign fund in Morsi era rose 2 billions more.
    10. If islamists or the MB wanted to turn to violence and started to use what so called "Bombings. Burning Churches and Stealing Antiques" they would've done it in mass way not individually poor strikes.
    11. The economy is on the brink of collapsing.
    12. Morsi and the MB has regaind their compassion & sympathy again, unfortunately.
    13. Morsi has been "Implicily" deposed, no actual word of deposing in the general speach or even a piece of paper proving morsi deposition, unlike Mubarak.

    This Dilemma had a simple solution to avoid the recent mess :
    instead of deposing Morsi and suspending the constitution .. they could hold the president in a compulsory prison and announcing about a referendum on Morsi or even a new presidential elections .. nice, smooth and legit way ;)

    PS : - i'm coptic .
    - Contract without signing and paper-works isn't a contract so is democracy
    without elections.
     
  15. CokeCanWide

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    Did anyone read an un-biased point of view about "Sharia" ?
     
  16. B_underguy1

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    Sharia is a scare word in the western world these days. It sends the chickens apoplectic.

    It's all part of the clash of civilisations narrative that drives consent for the resource wars that western finance capital is waging on the planet.
     
  17. CokeCanWide

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    Myself and being in a country with majority of muslims, i read and heard about the Sharia.
    It's different but the reasons about being established is convincing .

    As a coptic without that kind of commitment to the church, i would say, it's better to be governed by Sharia rather than "Multinational cooperations" .
     
  18. b.c.

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    Really!? So your argument is that if not for the decadent influence of capitalism, socialist societies would work just fine.

    A quick check of Wikipedia (a capitalist "tool", no doubt) identifies four countries that consider themselves "socialists" (i.e. dedicated to the construction of a socialist society), to which is added the following commentary:

    "...the current regimes in China,...Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam...do not consider themselves as socialist states, but operate what they consider a socialist political system. All of them have opened up their economies to the market and the private sector, but still remain committed to Marxist–Leninist thought."

    List of socialist countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    #58 b.c., Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
  19. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    Socialism in varying degrees has worked better than laissez faire capitalism.

    Countries that have adopted more socialist principals always achieve better outcomes in popular terms than those that don't.

    Ad they always attract the wrath of the capitalist nations e.g. libya.

    Look at what the USA does to Cuba and Venezueala. Look at all the dirty wars against populist social movements in Latin America.

    They can't tolerate a good example of how to run a country for its people.
     
  20. B_underguy1

    B_underguy1 Banned

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    People in the west are only just waking up to corporate rule. Most are still in denial and think that the electoral process works and that politicians are really in charge.

    It's all a hoax though. Corporations are writing international law and subverting sovereignty through "free trade" agreements and the like.
     
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