Anti Gay Agenda for Public Schools

[Freddie53]

This article explains a movement to remove children from any public school that is gay tolerent. Read it.


http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/5/112005a.asp

What is your opinion?

What should those of us that oppose this thread do?

 

[Freddie53]

For the record, I think this is an attempt of a minority to force their opinion on a majority. It is anti democratic. I don't mind a survey of religions and it is fine to tell our students that fundamental Christians belief homosexual lifestyle is wrong. It is also correct to tell them that all do not agree, not even all Christians agree with that much less the some of the non-Christian world. That is fine to explain in soclial studies the beliefs of all the various groups. But if we do, we should explain that some thing it is normal and nothing wrong with it. The survey of beliefs or religions must be completely fair, nonjudgemental, and show no bias at all.

But this is an attempt for a particular religious group to set their particular religious beliefs as the law for all in the public schools. That is unconsitutional as far as I am concerned.

But I am not sure best how the rest of the nation should combat this intrusion into the public schools by a religious organization.

Hope there will come forth some good ideas for all of you.

 

[KinkGuy]

I want my copy of the "homosexual agenda." Lost in the mail maybe? Where's my membership card? Would someone PLEASE show me the secret handshake!

I only wish the gay community were half as organized and efficient as the fundies claim we are. For fuck sake, we can't even agree whether Queer Eye is politically correct, incorrect or funny or not!

I'm just going to keep contributing what I can to NGLTF, Human Rights Campaign and PFlag. And other than voting and being out, proud and civilized, I'm not sure what can be done.

They are out to get us.

And I just look like shit in horizontal stripes.

 

[blackwood]

Originally posted by Freddie53@May 12 2005, 02:46 AM
This article explains a movement to remove children from any public school that is gay tolerent. Read it.


http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/5/112005a.asp

What is your opinion?

What should those of us that oppose this thread do?

[post=310294]Quoted post[/post]​

Freedie53, Post deleted on 5/13

!!!!!!!!!! Am not comfortable leaving the info in place.

b

 

[Freddie53]

Thaniks for posting Blackwood. It saddens me to realize that so much of what you wrote is so correct. It may be even worse then what you wrote.

I will clarify something though. Please don't clump all people who consider themselves Christian in one group. The group which you have a problem is in religious terms called evanglical/fundamentalist. My church is neither. There are millions of Christians who despise the fundies. I have no respect for most of them. They are in my opionion distoring the teachings of Jesus. I know about all the Bible stuff some quote. Christian means Christ like and Christ is another word for Jesus. Sp I measure everything agaisnt what Jesus said and did. Not some of those other writers especially in the Hebrew part of the Bbile.

It saddens me when I hear words like "Republicans and Christians nned to do this or that" and yet that is exactly what I read from their pubications! It irritates the hell out of me that they insenuate that if you are a Democrat you can't be a Christian.

Again for your excellent points. Maybe we can survive until 2006 and at least get control of one House and then 2008 take it all.

 

[13788]

carolinacurious: It's sad. I don't know how to stop it. I don't see where they're doing anything illegal. Of course the "threat" is that the schools will outlaw the associations for young gays to stop the mass exodus of Southern Baptist children. If the schools cave, they get (the lawsuits) what they deserve for doing what they know to be wrong.

If the Baptists really do pull their children out of the schools, which I doubt will happen, I don't see what can be done to stop them.

Hey, less competition in the workplace for me!

If there are any "fundies" reading this my message to you is: We're not trying to turn your kids gay, we're trying to keep your gay kids from committing suicide. We're also trying to keep your stupid kids from making life a living hell for anyone who may be different than them. What are you doing for your gay kids?

 

[blackwood]

Originally posted by Freddie53@May 12 2005, 07:04 AM
Thaniks for posting Blackwood. It saddens me to realize that so much of what you wrote is so correct. It may be even worse then what you wrote.

I will clarify something though. Please don't clump all people who consider themselves Christian in one group. The group which you have a problem is in religious terms called evanglical/fundamentalist. My church is neither. There are millions of Christians who despise the fundies. I have no respect for most of them. They are in my opionion distoring the teachings of Jesus. I know about all the Bible stuff some quote. Christian means Christ like and Christ is another word for Jesus. Sp I measure everything agaisnt what Jesus said and did. Not some of those other writers especially in the Hebrew part of the Bbile.

It saddens me when I hear words like "Republicans and Christians nned to do this or that" and yet that is exactly what I read from their pubications! It irritates the hell out of me that they insenuate that if you are a Democrat you can't be a Christian.

Again for your excellent points. Maybe we can survive until 2006 and at least get control of one House and then 2008 take it all.

[post=310348]Quoted post[/post]​

That is fully understood Freddie, and today (5/13) having shared MY thoughts, ((((I remove same due to (I'm sure you all will understand))))

b.........

 

[blackwood]

Originally posted by blackwood+May 12 2005, 10:48 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(blackwood &#064; May 12 2005, 10:48 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Freddie53@May 12 2005, 07:04 AM
Thaniks for posting Blackwood. It saddens me to realize that so much of what you wrote is so correct. It may be even worse then what you wrote.

I will clarify something though. Please don&#39;t clump all people who consider themselves Christian in one group. The group which you have a problem is in religious terms called evanglical/fundamentalist. My church is neither. There are millions of Christians who despise the fundies. I have no respect for most of them. They are in my opionion distoring the teachings of Jesus. I know about all the Bible stuff some quote. Christian means Christ like and Christ is another word for Jesus. Sp I measure everything agaisnt what Jesus said and did. Not some of those other writers especially in the Hebrew part of the Bbile.

It saddens me when I hear words like "Republicans and Christians nned to do this or that" and yet that is exactly what I read from their pubications&#33; It irritates the hell out of me that they insenuate that if you are a Democrat you can&#39;t be a Christian.

Again for your excellent points. Maybe we can survive until 2006 and at least get control of one House and then 2008 take it all.

[post=310348]Quoted post[/post]​

That is fully understood Freddie,

But the radicals of the church have blindly begun a new crusade, Against anyone whoe would disagree with them.

Are they really screwing the Muslims in Iraq, Naw&#33; they never had it so good taking their passions in the mutilation and daily killing of there own.

It&#39;s awful that ANYONE would hate, kill, mock and degrade anyone who disagrees with themand yet our troops are dieing daily, 9/11 was only the beginning of the coup.

A country full of HATE, PANIC, AGGRESSIVE FEELINGS all directed at folks who in reality want the same thing they do.

I thought I would be able to enjoy a retirement for at least what I have left to live but now with all the thievery going on by the that has a BUNCH of &#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036; they may in some manner play with my retirement &#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036; and of course I and mine can fend on our own, cause we own a part of "it".

Further, the kids, our kids, my GOD what is Bush doing.



b..........

[post=310364]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


one more thing, is it just me or is he not more sympathtic to other nations than to 49 percent of his own???

Schools, suck, he created it, will not recognize it

Social Security, uncertainity, will not recognize much less than what he wants and HE ain&#39;t in the position to think........

Picture this: You buy a baseball team with borowed &#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036; (600,000.00) You do nothing for 8 years but show up at afew games, after leaving your white only compound in East Texas....

The same billionaire who lended you the 600,000.00 Now pays you &#036;&#036;20,000,000.00 for your "part"

ONE HELL OF AN Earning??????????????? eh

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

There are rays of hope. I feared what might happen if my sexuality were discovered in this largely Southern Baptist bastion of intolerance. It happened: I&#39;m out. Guess what ... the majority of my redneck neighbours were not as intolerant as I had feared. There were two or three parents who objected to their innocent children being subjected to the influence of a &#39;faggot&#39;, but they are the minority. The school board is very happy with me: for the first time in ten years, the seniors actually scored above the goal in English in the state proficiency exams. The parents are happy with me: their children are actually learning something. The students seem to like me: okay, I can&#39;t really figure that one out, considering I&#39;m more demanding than they had anticipated. But I&#39;m accepted and appreciated by this mostly Southern Baptist community, and I never expected that. I guess I was more guilty of prejudging them than they were of me. We learn, and we can only help that the trend is growing.

 

[taven]

All I can say, DMW, is thank God (or whatever one believes in) for teachers like you. My working life has been predicated on the concept that kids are the most important thing we have in a civilization, and their education is paramount. As I&#39;m being phased out, my biggest worry is what is going to happen to my kids next year. The hand picked successor seems to be questionable at best from what I&#39;ve been able to find out. The only good thing for me is that I won&#39;t have to grade all those essays and other papers ever again.

 

[Lex]

DMW--I never had the chance to be out when I taught special ed, but damn--I am SO fucking proud of what you have been able to accomplish.

I did show the film Philadelphia and challenge my students (middle schoolers) to rethink their perspective. I asked--if you found out tomorrow that I was gay--what would be so different about me? Am I a lesser teacher? Am I not fit to sponsor the SGA? Should I quit?

Equivically, they said that while it would be "weird" as long as the person I was did not change, everything would be fine.


Ah--the innocence of youth.

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by carolinacurious@May 12 2005, 05:39 AM
We&#39;re not trying to turn your kids gay, we&#39;re trying to keep your gay kids from committing suicide. We&#39;re also trying to keep your stupid kids from making life a living hell for anyone who may be different than them. What are you doing for your gay kids?

[post=310355]Quoted post[/post]​

Man, I totally love that. Great perspective there, and the directness works.

And DMW, it does my heart good to know that your experience has been so promising. I&#39;ve been meaning to pm you for awhile now to ask about that very issue and how it has impacted your work. Once the semester is over and life calms down a bit, I&#39;ll ask you more about it.

This, I think, is how change is going to occur. Once the more afraid/judgemental people begin to realize that they probably already have homosexual people in their lives--be it their kids, coworkers, friends, leaders, whomever--then maybe the humanitarian instincts will kick in (at least for some). Look at Dick Cheney. That&#39;s a tiny start, at least.

I keep telling myself that time is on our side in this, but change is so gradual as to be almost indiscernable sometimes. Sometimes I think that this current cultural swing is part of the new millennium panic.

 

[jay_too]

About 10 years ago when I was in high school, we had three male teachers that were gay. They were neither the most popular/respected teachers or the least. One was a soccer coach; another an English teacher; and the last social studies teacher. How did we know? Well, we saw them shopping at the grocery or going to the movie with their partner, etc. The students did not have any problem with their living arrangements or sexual orientation. In fact, the school or people in the community did not seem to either. Perhaps, it was because we lived in a &#39;burb of NYC, and people are more tolerant. OR more likely [I hope.], people are naturally more tolerant than the sterotypical American homophobe that we assume is middle America.

jay

 

[PonyPete]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@May 12 2005, 08:30 PM
The students seem to like me: okay, I can&#39;t really figure that one out, considering I&#39;m more demanding than they had anticipated.

Mr. N might be reluctant about announcing this here, but he won the award as "Most Popular Teacher" by the seniors this year. There are several reason why you got it. You&#39;re the youngest teacher we have, so you&#39;re not really that much older than us. You&#39;re a great athlete. Being good-looking doesn&#39;t exactly lose votes among the girls. You are harder than we expected, but you have patience and even the slowest to catch on in class knows you won&#39;t make him out to be stupid. You&#39;re enthusiastic about what you do. You make time for students and are available to arrange tutoring for those who need it. You got the whole class past the proficiency test, and we never thought that would happen. The fact that you&#39;re gay doesn&#39;t really bother any but a very few students. I knew that you were gay because of reading your posts here, but it doesn&#39;t affect my admiration. We need more teachers like you who care about the students. Anyone who criticises you and the job you&#39;ve done this year simply because you&#39;re gay can kiss my skinny, lily-whiteass. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever said this to a teacher before, but :yourock: &#33;

 

[jonb]

Yeah, well, in the end, most straight guys don&#39;t have a problem with your gayosity. The problem is the extent to which those who do have a problem go. So go, be gay, more women for us.

 

[13788]

carolinacurious:

Originally posted by steve319+May 12 2005, 07:30 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steve319 &#064; May 12 2005, 07:30 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-carolinacurious@May 12 2005, 05:39 AM
We&#39;re not trying to turn your kids gay, we&#39;re trying to keep your gay kids from committing suicide. We&#39;re also trying to keep your stupid kids from making life a living hell for anyone who may be different than them. What are you doing for your gay kids?

[post=310355]Quoted post[/post]​

Man, I totally love that. Great perspective there, and the directness works.
[/b][/quote]

Thank-you. Yeah, I like it too. I wanted to express it somehow even though I think it will be unlikely that the people who need to see it most will see it here. Maybe someone can use it somewhere.

The problem, and not to argue with myself but..., the people who most need to see this DON&#39;T believe that their kids are/can be gay. That&#39;s one of the main points of the original article, that these programs are turning "good striaght (baptist) Christian" kids gay. I really don&#39;t like to engage in ad hominim attacks, (well I DO, but I try not to) but I don&#39;t know how to reason with this mode of thinking. Can we come to an agreed upon position where it&#39;s no longer an ad hominim attack to call someone stupid?

If people continue to maintain that being gay is a choice in the face of all reasonable and rational evidence, I&#39;m sorry, that&#39;s just stupid. We&#39;d say you were stupid if you refused to believe that the earth wasn&#39;t flat, I don&#39;t see why the same rules can&#39;t apply here.

Another fun thing that someone may be able to get some use out of:
When you encounter someone who insists that being gay is a choice, ask them: "At what age did you choose to be straight? What was that like for you?"

 

[jonb]

Well, if we&#39;re resorting to ad hominem attacks, maybe they fantasize about father-son sex. Eww . . .

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by PonyPete+May 12 2005, 10:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PonyPete &#064; May 12 2005, 10:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DoubleMeatWhopper@May 12 2005, 08:30 PM
The students seem to like me: okay, I can&#39;t really figure that one out, considering I&#39;m more demanding than they had anticipated.

Mr. N might be reluctant about announcing this here, but he won the award as "Most Popular Teacher" by the seniors this year. I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever said this to a teacher before, but :yourock: &#33;

[post=310612]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
CONGRADULATIONS Jacinto&#33; I am not surprised. The teachers who the students respect and also think rock usually are the best teachers and they have the highest test scores. I deleted the sentence that Pete said this, but you didn&#39;t make your students feel stupid and you found a way to teach all of them and you respected them. If only more teachers would realize that students want to be respected, there would be far fewer problems in the schools.

THE OLD SOUTH&#33;&#33;&#33; Conservative but compassionate. The Southern Baptists people across the South don&#39;t realize what the right wing leadership of their church is doing. It will start hitting home and the folks back home aren&#39;t going to follow the leadership of their church on this one.

My town is well over half Southern Baptist. No Catholic church. The Methodist Church is the only one of the non evangelical/fundamental churches in town. Yet, gay teachers have taught here without so much a whisper. One even died of aids.

There are a few who are home schooling, but very few.

So yes, there are rays of hope&#33;

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

I appreciate Pete&#39;s kind words, but I give credit to the townspeople who embraced me and let me do the job I was hired to do rather than try to undermine my effectiveness by spreading dirty innuendo about my personal life. That&#39;s the ray of hope that I meant.

And Pete, get your skinny, lily-white ass to bed: You have an exam on Chaucer at 8:30 in the morning&#33;

 

[steve319]

I might have to steal some of that line of questioning myself, cc.

Originally posted by carolinacurious@May 12 2005, 11:57 PM
That&#39;s one of the main points of the original article, that these programs are turning "good striaght (baptist) Christian" kids gay.

[post=310616]Quoted post[/post]​

And as long as that thinking rides herd over their actions, we&#39;re in trouble. I&#39;ve had parents tell me that they are considering taking their gay kids to see a doctor to see if that will help or that they&#39;ve heard at church about some program that can "cure" them.

Hard not to blow a gasket over that sort of thing, but then I remember: this is a teachable moment.

And congratulations, DMW&#33; It&#39;s an honor well-earned, I&#39;m sure. Keep fighting the good fight.