Anti-Science School Boards in Florida

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by JustAsking, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. JustAsking

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    A number of county school boards in Florida are rejecting the State's new science curriculum, which mentions Evolution as being the basis for the diversity of life on the planet. (since this article was writting it looks like the count is up to about 12 counties).

    How can we maintain our competitive edge in this increasingly complex scientific world if we continually reject the teaching of science in our public schools?

    Discuss.
     
  2. SpoiledPrincess

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    As you know I don't believe in God, but for those who do I've never been able to understand why evolution and God would be seen as being mutually exclusive. At a basic level it's teaching kids that their teachers are liars, the greater world accepts evolution as a fact yet they're being taught in a way that's duplicitous. I'm not really qualified to make a judgement on how much it would impact on scientific advancement, but I do feel that it would teach kids at a young age that their authority figures aren't trustworthy.
     
  3. JustAsking

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    What can you tell your children if your literal interpretation of the Bible continually conflicts with reality? Your choices are to fight the public schools to not teach reality or home-school your child. Both tactics are being used heavily in the USA.
     
  4. SpoiledPrincess

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    You could tell them what I told my kids when they were told something that I didn't think was right (not necessarily by school) that this is what some people believe, I believe this. Isn't there a national curriculum in the USA as there is in the UK?
     
  5. B_sugarandspice

    B_sugarandspice New Member

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    omg, our schools are so fucked up!!!
     
  6. rob_just_rob

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    With unfair trade practices, support of unpopular dictators, and lots and lots of outsourcing.
     
  7. kalipygian

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    I graduated from a Florida HS in 1973, it was illegal to teach evolution then, I had an excellent geology teacher who had ways around it.
    The students thought the ban was absurd, this was just inland from Cape Canaveral.
     
  8. THEEman

    THEEman New Member

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    I believe this is idiotic but also there is no DEFINITIVE way to prove evolution. but it is WAY better than teaching them to stone gays, or sell your daughters into prostituion. OR CUT OFF 30% OF YOUR BABIES DICK (I never got why so many other non christians or tribesmen do circumcision, they have no knowledge of it so why do they do it?)
     
  9. slate_australis

    slate_australis New Member

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    There is SOME evidence for evolution... as opposed to nothing for creationism or it's bastard twin "intelligent design"

    Any science curriculum which actually treats ID on par with evolution is a sham.

    Oh, no the US does not have a national curriculum, since the indivdual school boards/states control things. The same is true in Australia, the states control it. Remember the UK is a centralised government.
     
  10. SpoiledPrincess

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    Then introduce a national curriculum where what's taught is the standard scientifically accepted.
     
  11. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Touche Monsieur Pussycat!

     
  12. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Doesn't quite work that way......

    The government can demand this or that be taught but if the school boards don't fund it then it doesn't happen. All our schools are locally-controlled. Want to REALLY piss people off? Introduce unfunded federal standards. Bush tried it with the, "No Child Left Behind," act, which is a total failure. Teachers, parents, and students hate it.

     
  13. ManlyBanisters

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    Yes, that seems to be working for you at the moment - give it another 100 years though and the Chinese will be better at that too.

    It's curious to me - I'm watching the slow process of Europe federalising and, to me, the more harmony across the member states the better things seem to be getting for everyone. The US has a federal system in place and yet many seem so very opposed to it, to want to undo it even. Why is that?

    Oh and I forgot to quote, but to SP - I do believe in God and I see absolutely no contradiction between the teachings of my church and evolution. Certain churches take the Bible as the literal (and only) word of God - those guys have a problem. I think most intelligent free thinking Christian (and those of other religions with a creation mythology in their own contexts) can live happily with the knowledge that the Bible is, in great part, allegorical (certainly the OT is widely accepted as such). My lot seem to have accepted this, with a few teething troubles certainly, but nonetheless. In fact the beauty of evolution is something that strengthens my belief in God. The more I learn about the workings of the universe the more I believe. Certain mathematical symmetries in the universe combined with the near infinite improbability of our own existence in it, I believe, point towards a prime mover, not away.
     
  14. SpeedoGuy

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    Well, evolution is just a theory ya know....
     
  15. HazelGod

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    As is universal gravitation. :tongue:
     
  16. Osiris

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    That would be easier done if we didn't have so many people demanding different things from their local schools (I still say teaching Ebonics in school should be against the law).

    As for teaching creation over evolution in schools, I am completely opposed to it. I have faith and a belief in God. Moreover, I have a belief in people's freedom to believe (or not believe). There are Christian schools who get nice government subsidies. Want your child to be taught creation? Send them there. Public schools are for the masses and there are a great number of the masses (I'd even say the majority) who do not believe in creation. If I want my kids to know the bible, that's MY job, not the school systems.

    Just as I maintain with the Pledge of Allegiance, I want my kids to say "one nation under God", but I will fight for the rights of others who do not, and should not, have to say it. If we make religion mandatory, then shouldn't the Muslim child say "one nation under Allah"? The country was founded on freedom of religion and speech. True the founding fathers were only looking at a select few religions, but through the years, many faiths have come about.

    Respect must be paid to all believers and non-believers alike in the public arena, but when we cave to the religious faction in our public systems, we run the risk of alienating millions in the general populous. If parents are too damn lazy to teach their religious beliefs to their children, it isn't the school systems job to do all they won't.

    Live and let live, but keep creation where it belongs, in church or the home. Not in our public schools.
     
  17. Lex

    Lex
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    Silly rabbit! Jesus will help us keep a competitive edge! Just as he will help whichever team wins the SuperBowl, World Series, etc.

    Why teach complex ideas when we have the Bible?

    UGH.
     
  18. B_dumbcow

    B_dumbcow New Member

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    Schools in england are now staring to teach creationism again as a theory. when i was at school, we only did evolution and i cant remember the mention of creationism, but now politically correct england has to avoid offending anyone.
     
  19. JustAsking

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    No, the USA is still considered to be a federation of States. Many laws vary from state to state, including how the public school system is run. The public schools run on state and local funding with some grants from the federal government.

    Also, Americans are somewhat of two minds about the federal government. On one hand, why is something as important as education left in the hands of local school board members, who are usually just local politicians? On the other hand, Americans have a built in aversion to the federal government being intrusive in our everyday lives. So it is pretty much a stalemate.

    See the last comment. Also, the current US administration would support the inclusion of Intelligent Design, etc. in the science curriculum because they are pandering to their right wing conservative base. If there were a national commission charged with creating a curriculum, it would be loaded up with "political officers" just as all the government scientific advisory groups have had.


    SP,
    Excellent thoughts as usual. Yes, mainstream Christianity has made its peace with science over a hundred years ago. Currently, all the mainstream Christian denominations (including RCC) have a formal social statement embracing science as the accepted way of understanding the natural world, and specifically acknowldging that Modern Evolutionary Theory is the best explanation for the diversity of life on the planet.

    This is not a concession to science. It is a recognition that the Bible is not a science text nor is it much of a history text (except in few cases where it attempts to be an account after the fact).

    I am assuming that the last three quoted comments are made tongue in cheek, but only because of they way they were worded. This is one of the most important problems with this situation, however, which is the astounding illiteracy in the US when it comes to the nature of a scientific theory.

    Evolution is both a fact, and a scientific theory. The fact of evolution is descent with modification. This is a fact in the same way that Earth attracts objects with gravity.

    Evolution is also a scientific theory in which the theory offers an explanation in the form of a number of mechanisms by which the fact of evolution happens.

    Scientific theories have a different status in the subject of "how we know things", than the usual everyday use of the world "theory".

    So as scientific theories are concerned, presently, there is only one that fits the definition. All other scientific theories, such as Lamarckism have not survived the rigors of scientific inquiry.

    Also, as scientific theories go, Intelligent Design does not qualify as a scientific theory since it makes no positive assertions that are falsifiable. If someone knows of any falsifiable positive assertions that ID has made, please set me straight.

    Ironically, Creationism (in its form as Scientific Creationaism) is better formulated as a scientific theory, but it is not supported by evidence. It is falsifiable, but unfortunately has been falsified endlessly.

    This is why I believe that it is only detrimental to suggest to young minds in science class that they should abandon science for the purpose of studying explanations about the natural world that are not scientific.
     
  20. sargon20

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    We are aware that the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood as depicted in the Bible and not the Colorado River as scientists tell us? If this is happening at the national level why not the local level?

    The Bush Administration has decided that it will stand by its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah&#8217;s flood rather than by geologic forces, according to internal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

    Parks Service Sticks With Biblical Explanation for Grand Canyon
     
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