Anti-semitism - explain this to me!

[b.c.]

Yeh the picture that he painted was pretty vivid, it was in a reasonable sized city in the Southwest of England. It's not surprising that a poster would have downplayed those hate crime rises, because it's frankly politically inconvenient if you're a leaver. Obviously other factors played a role too (one environmental factor was obviously the neglect of the Midlands and North of England after deindustrialisation under Thatcher, apparently she qualifies as a centrist according to the right wingers here?!!!! ), but anti-immigration sentiment and xenophobia were huge. Of course they would swear blind this isn't the case, predictably (even though one of the brexiteer posters has stated that he doesn't like Polish people and they make him feel uncomfortable, and the other one gets uncomfortable if I move into German with other posters). And the atmosphere didn't stick for just a week or two, though it obviously peaked in the immediate aftermath of the vote. The Daily Mail published a headline condemning the judiciary for declaring that the government had no right to trigger the Brexit process through the power of royal prerogative (an arcane power used by the government that harkens back to the days of absolute monarchy), instead they declared it should be done by parliamentary vote (that was the government trying to ignore the sovereignty of parliament, it was not trying to halt the process), and they were declared as "The Enemies of the People"

One of the judges was attacked as an "openly gay former fencer", I think you have succeeded in life if that is the worst thing the gutter press can bring up against you. Because the lawyer who brought the case against the government was a black woman, you can imagine what some of the predictable attacks against her were. The conservatives also have been pandering to the anti-immigrant vote since too.

It would appear that conservatives there are equally inclined, as their American counterparts, to appeal to the basest of sentiments, while your Labour Party like our Democrats, also has a few bad apples among them, who you conservatives miss no opportunity in demonizing in order to suit their own ends. The difference being that in the UK there seems to be more political factions (parties?) which at times make for "strange bedfellow" "enemy of my enemy" scenarios.

My thinking has always been that, given that no political party is perfect, one aligns oneself with the one that more closely embodies one's own values and ideology, which often involves the choosing of the lesser of two evils (or perhaps in your case, several), an argument I made to some progressives here, leading up to the election.

Better, I thought, to support a political party and that party's nominee, ESPECIALLY a party that incorporated your ideas and proposals into their party platform, rather than behave in a way that guaranteed the entrenchment of a party that'd NEVER see things your way.

Some instead chose to "stand on principle." Most Republicans couldn't give a flying about "principles" I think. Because THEY don't bring knives to a gunfight.

 

[southeastone]

Momentum is the new ultra left wing of the UK opposition Labour party.

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-Semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”

 

[TexanStar]

Momentum is the new ultra left wing of the UK opposition Labour party.

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-Semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”

You know you're cutting him off, right? That you are only posting half of his resignation letter?

The full text is on his Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshuagarfield?lang=en He's completely supportive of Corbyn.

 

[852147]

Momentum is the new ultra left wing of the UK opposition Labour party.

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-Semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”

Momentum now run's the Labour party basically has installed a Momentum leader and cabinet and is taking over the entire structure of the Labour party. The Labour party is suppose to be a broadchurch from hard left socialist like Corbyn too neo liberal's and the centre left but now it's basically a hard left party not a broadchurch at all at the top. Problem is the more moderate MP's can't do anything to remove Corbyn as membership will re elect him and they don't have the ball's to leave the party and probably ruin there career's. Moderate voter's may go Lib dem but not in enough number's to make a big difference I think.

You see alot of chatter on twitter of people saying i'm voting Lib dem as Corbyn is too far too the left and his betrayed us on Brexit which I agree he has if your a remainer. I do think there a highly vocal minority of maybe 50k not enough to effect Corbyn in council election's much. Although poll's have got slowly worse at all level's recently for Labour and I think Labour will do well and win seat's at council election's next month but won't do nearly as well as predicted say two month's ago when they where predicting a landslide. I can see them struggling in wealthy urban area's that voted remain who feel they have been betrayed by Corbyn since the general election as his gone with hard Brexit.

 

[englad]

It would appear that conservatives there are equally inclined, as their American counterparts, to appeal to the basest of sentiments, while your Labour Party like our Democrats, also has a few bad apples among them, who you conservatives miss no opportunity in demonizing in order to suit their own ends. The difference being that in the UK there seems to be more political factions (parties?) which at times make for "strange bedfellow" "enemy of my enemy" scenarios.

My thinking has always been that, given that no political party is perfect, one aligns oneself with the one that more closely embodies one's own values and ideology, which often involves the choosing of the lesser of two evils (or perhaps in your case, several), an argument I made to some progressives here, leading up to the election.

Better, I thought, to support a political party and that party's nominee, ESPECIALLY a party that incorporated your ideas and proposals into their party platform, rather than behave in a way that guaranteed the entrenchment of a party that'd NEVER see things your way.

Some instead chose to "stand on principle." Most Republicans couldn't give a flying about "principles" I think. Because THEY don't bring knives to a gunfight.

Yeh exactly. It's a combination of both political parties and factions. The conservative party still have a handful of more decent minded people in there, that I don't always agree with, but I like their bluntness and principle, Anna Soubry is an example, speaking to Farage (UKIP's leader at the time, the party that was obsessed with this):

But unfortunately now they are getting fewer and further between. The conservatives are also in a mess because it takes a special kind of person to want to become prime minister whilst Brexit is underway. What you saw with their leadership battle was basically four numpties:

Boris Johnson: Bumbling fool with a penchant for insulting huge sections of the globe through gaffes, and when he's not doing that coming up, he comes up with ludicrous pipe dreams about building a literal bridge to France . Like a more intellectual Trump really (even with a ridiculous haircut). His most recent gaffe involved singing a colonial era song/poem "The Road to Mandalay" whilst a diplomatic visit to Myanmar (that particular country had a particularly rough experience of British colonialism and the poem does contain lines that would not go down well in a very sacred Buddhist temple). He seemed to have backed brexit for political motivations of his own, i.e. to make himself popular with the conservative party membership. Because of this many people saw him as a scheming political opportunist.

Michael Gove: The snide, conniving, charmless but intellectual git who backstabbed his own mate (Boris Johnson). He was the one that came up with that ridiculous "the British people are sick and tired of experts" mantra. But he had no charisma and noone likes a backstabber, so he was out.

That left two women in the running:

Andrea Leadsom

Pretty far right winger, with 0 empathy levels whatsoever, and a bunch of sketchy views. She lost out basically because she went for a low blow on Theresa May, who had mentioned that she wasn't able to conceive and it had distressed her. Leadsom ended up saying that she was better qualified because she was a mother. That was incredibly insensitive, and hardly qualifies her for the role.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Leadsom#Political_views

So that basically left the political opportunist and charisma-free Theresa May as the only one standing. It was a conservative knife fight basically lol, they all shat on each other and ended up with one woman left standing.

On Corbyn's side he got a huge amount of criticism from his own political party, because they thought the Conservative party would win in a landslide just six weeks before the election:

There are of course more political parties too, dependent on which of the constituent countries in the UK. The Lib Dems (centrist party) and the Greens are throughout Britain. SNP in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales (the nationalists). Along with the DUP (the party propping up the conservatives) and Sinn Fein (who don't take up their seats in Westminster) in Northern Ireland.

The tactical voting definitely makes sense, and that is what people did in the UK snap election last year. I personally think it is the best route. Having said that for the US's case, I would have voted for Clinton to stop Trump in the election. But my ideal democratic candidate would have been Sanders.

You know you're cutting him off, right? That you are only posting half of his resignation letter?

The full text is on his Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshuagarfield?lang=en He's completely supportive of Corbyn.

Well facts like that would have just been inconvient for him. I think this is going to turn into a right wing, blue passport British echo chamber. It's safe to say they've shown their arses though.

 

[englad]

And here are my favourite Maybot moments:

A P45 is the form you get given in the UK, when you lose your job. @Klingsor @b.c. @TexanStar

 

[852147]

Yeh exactly. It's a combination of both political parties and factions. The conservative party still have a handful of more decent minded people in there, that I don't always agree with, but I like their bluntness and principle, Anna Soubry is an example, speaking to Farage (UKIP's leader at the time, the party that was obsessed with this):

But unfortunately now they are getting fewer and further between. The conservatives are also in a mess because it takes a special kind of person to want to become prime minister whilst Brexit is underway. What you saw with their leadership battle was basically four numpties:

Boris Johnson: Bumbling fool with a penchant for insulting huge sections of the globe through gaffes, and when he's not doing that coming up, he comes up with ludicrous pipe dreams about building a literal bridge to France . Like a more intellectual Trump really (even with a ridiculous haircut). His most recent gaffe involved singing a colonial era song/poem "The Road to Mandalay" whilst a diplomatic visit to Myanmar (that particular country had a particularly rough experience of British colonialism and the poem does contain lines that would not go down well in a very sacred Buddhist temple). He seemed to have backed brexit for political motivations of his own, i.e. to make himself popular with the conservative party membership. Because of this many people saw him as a scheming political opportunist.

Michael Gove: The snide, conniving, charmless but intellectual git who backstabbed his own mate (Boris Johnson). He was the one that came up with that ridiculous "the British people are sick and tired of experts" mantra. But he had no charisma and noone likes a backstabber, so he was out.

That left two women in the running:

Andrea Leadsom

Pretty far right winger, with 0 empathy levels whatsoever, and a bunch of sketchy views. She lost out basically because she went for a low blow on Theresa May, who had mentioned that she wasn't able to conceive and it had distressed her. Leadsom ended up saying that she was better qualified because she was a mother. That was incredibly insensitive, and hardly qualifies her for the role.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Leadsom#Political_views

So that basically left the political opportunist and charisma-free Theresa May as the only one standing. It was a conservative knife fight basically lol, they all shat on each other and ended up with one woman left standing.

On Corbyn's side he got a huge amount of criticism from his own political party, because they thought the Conservative party would win in a landslide just six weeks before the election:

There are of course more political parties too, dependent on which of the constituent countries in the UK. The Lib Dems (centrist party) and the Greens are throughout Britain. SNP in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales (the nationalists). Along with the DUP (the party propping up the conservatives) and Sinn Fein (who don't take up their seats in Westminster) in Northern Ireland.

The tactical voting definitely makes sense, and that is what people did in the UK snap election last year. I personally think it is the best route. Having said that for the US's case, I would have voted for Clinton to stop Trump in the election. But my ideal democratic candidate would have been Sanders.






Well facts like that would have just been inconvient for him. I think this is going to turn into a right wing, blue passport British echo chamber. It's safe to say they've shown their arses though.

I agree a special type of person regardless of political alliances would want to take on brexit the most difficult political landmine potential in the last 35-40 year’s. No one wanted it really and May was left standing as she sort of fell into job I reckon never expected to win always expected Boris to win. Same as Corbyn went for Labour leadership not expecting to win and ended up leader.

Honestly I think we have the worst set of party leaders in decades May useless characterless bore Corbyn childlike naivety weak as wet tissue paper and lie’s with every other sentence all the minor parties also have useless leader’s. Honestly the best leader wise is Caroline Lucas and she lead’s a fringe party but she has the best leadership qualities and won the debates according to most non completely biased people.Pity her party is fringe and outside of green issues talk’s mostly utter rubbish lol!

Im hoping May goes post Brexit and Corbyn is forced out and we can return to semi decent leader’s honestly I moaned in 2015 about Cameron and Miliband they look great compared to this shower of shit we have now lol!

Sidenote I have voted for Labour and Conservative in the last 5 year’s and I’m not a partisan crazed supporter of any party.

 

[Jason]

I moaned in 2015 about Cameron and Miliband they look great compared to this shower of shit we have now lol!

Yes, you have a point.

I don't think Corbyn is going anywhere fast. He is the pin up boy for the ultra-left, and they see no reason to change him. At some future time I think Momentum will replace him with a much younger person who has a "clean skin", who just hasn't been in politics for the years Corbyn has and is therefore without the embarrassing baggage of Corbyn. I think it would suit Momentum to make the change just before an election, with Corbyn elevated to hero status but no longer actually in politics.

For that matter I don't think May is going anywhere fast. There will be a crisis point about this time next year. We will presumably have a Brexit agreement, so the remoaner/brexiteer divide will be history. The DUP probably have the power to force another election if they so wish. However I think we will probably see a renewed deal with the DUP, and May staying as Conservative leader in effect as a compromise candidate. There are all sorts of other possibilities. One intriguing idea is that the Con-DUP pact could be replaced with a formal coalition, which would be a way of saying the government intended to go full term, to 2022.

I don't think the Conservatives could fight another General Election with May as PM. I think there is too much hurt from the 2017 campaign.

I suppose if the government stays the distance to 2022 we're looking at some ultra-hard left uber-Marxist representing Momentum. For Conservatives I'm really struggling. Williamson? Not my choice, but I think he might just come through the scrum.

 

[b.c.]

I just read this article appearing today on slate.com. Wow, what a quagmire.

Under Jeremy Corbyn, the long relationship between the Labour Party and British Jews has reached a crisis point.

 

[Jason]

@b.c. Today (Tue) the Israeli Labour Party has formally severed fraternal relations with the British Labour Party, specifically on the issue of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

However Corbyn got support today. Nick Griffin has said that he approves of his policies and will vote Labour. Griffin is a previous leader and best known figure in BNP, the fascist party in the UK. The BNP has declined substantially since 2010, but right now its members are all moving their allegiance to Labour.

Corbyn is anti-Semitc by his words and actions. Very many in the Labour Movement have acknowledged this. However his Momentum has taken over the Labour Party. The Labour Party is now anti-Semitic from its leader down.