Anti semitism on the rise?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I am not Jewish but I can't figure out all the hatred of Israel at all. The double, no triple standard that country is held to is ridiculous and looks like anti semitism to me.

    If anyone here can come up with ANY unprovoked malicious attack by Israel that cannot be seen as a purely defensive gesture over the past 60 years, spell them out right here.

    List them.

    And why, as so many dolts here suggest, is it Israels responsibilty to prop up the Palestinians? I do not get it.
     
  2. nudeyorker

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    You have asked a reasonable question and answer question, however as a non practicing jew...anti semitism has been on the rise for years especially in Western Europe and I only have an essay type answer.
     
  3. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I did not mention Europe because I am sort of on Europe's case lately and did not want to skew this post but Yes I think you are right.
     
  4. Inter Ested

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    I think you're completely right: Isreal had to fight against anti-semitism since it was founded in 1948. The arab states and the palestinian population was even then influenced by egypt "muslim's brotherhood" (Don't know if this is the propper name in english, in german it's "Muslimbruderschaft") and by the Mufti of Jerusalem, who commanded his own SS-Division and lived in Nazi-Berlin from 1943 to 1945, as a guest of the F├╝hrer himself. :eek:

    In my opinion there is only one roadmap, that leads to peace in the middle-east: The Palestinians must get rid of their anti-semitic leaders (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hisbollah in Lebanon, etc.) and stop the attacs against the jews.

    Another problem is the anti-semitism all over the world: I live in Germany, and of course I can find examples for the hate against jews and against zionism everyday in my own neighbourhood. :mad:

    Shalom!
    I.E.
     
  5. Meniscus

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    What hatred? By whom? What triple standard?

    Anti-semitism is a very real problem, but Israel's actions with regards to their treatment of Palestinians and their relations with neighboring nations are not above criticism. Disagreeing with specific actions taken by Israel and/or agreeing with their overall policy with regards to Palestine is not evidence of anti-semitism.

    I'm not an expert on this subject and I don't claim to be, so I cannot rise to this challenge. What I do know is that this is a complex issue that has been studied for decades by better minds than yours or mine, and many people who are experts on the topic believe that Israel's occupation of Palestine violates international law, that their many "defensive gestures" have been extreme, and that no real efforts at diplomatic solutions have been made.

    More information can be found here, but I should say that because I'm not an expert on the subject, I don't know if the information on this site is accurate and free from bias.

    If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

    Part of the problem for ordinary Americans in determining what's really going on with Israel and it's neighbors is that the reporting on the topic is constantly being criticized for being biased in one way or another. Here's an excruciatingly long wikipedia article detailing accusations of bias from both sides.

    Media coverage of the Arab?Israeli conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Here are two documentaries about pro-Israel bias in the American media's coverage of the conflict.
    PEACE, PROPAGANDA & THE PROMISED LAND | U.S. Media & The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
    Occupation 101 :: Award-winning documentary film on the root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    And here's a review of the second documentary by an organization that claims that media coverage of the conflict has anti-Israel bias.
    CAMERA: Film Review: Occupation 101

    Honestly, I don't know what to think.

    This question is so loaded I'm not going to touch it.
     
    #5 Meniscus, Apr 8, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  6. AUS-WA

    AUS-WA New Member

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    It's because Americans are ignorant.
     
  7. Drifterwood

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  8. Bbucko

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    As someone who's been socially aware in the US since the 1960s, I have to say that the level of anti-semitism hasn't changed one iota that I've ever been able to detect. As long as there's someone who feels socially vulnerable and threatened, prejudice will exist as an excuse to find another human being less entitled to the benefit of the doubt than he/she deserves.

    What Chaz is spoiling for is a row over Israeli-American foreign policy, following along the predictable black/white dichotomy that exists in his simple and overwrought brain of one side being inhumanly pure-intentioned and the other being inhumanly, intrinsically evil.

    <yawn>
     
  9. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Do you equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semiticism?
     
  10. houtx48

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    i live in a jewish neighborhood and i find some love to be victims, but then again that is not confined to the jews.
     
  11. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Here is a partial list of sanctions the UN has taken vs. Israel

    1. "...condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria..."
    2. "...affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections..."
    3. "...condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians..."
    4. "...called for self-determination of Palestinian people..."
    5. "...deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations..."
    6. "...affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people..."
    7. "...endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people..."
    8. "...demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights..."
    9. "...condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations..."
    10. "...condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem..."
    11. "...urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon..."
    12. "...urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut..."
    13. "...urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon..."
    14. "...condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace..."
    15. "...deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal..."
    16. "...condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression..."
    17. "...denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories..."
    18. "...deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon..."
    19. "...deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites..."
    20. "...condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane..."
    21. "...deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon..."
    22. "...called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations..."
    23. "...urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices..."
    24. "...condemned Israel's... incursion into Lebanon..."
    25. "...deplored Israel's... commando raids on Lebanon..."
    26. "...deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians..."
    27. "...deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians..."
    28. "...demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada..."
    29. "...called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands..."
    (From Findley's Deliberate Deceptions, pages 192 - 194)

    [SIZE=+2]UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992.[/SIZE]


    Note that Israel is in VIOLATION of many of these Resolutions.
    1. Resolution 106: "...condemns Israel for Gaza raid"
    2. Resolution 111: "...condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
    3. Resolution 127: "...recommends Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
    4. Resolution 162: "...urges Israel to comply with UN decisions"
    5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria"
    6. Resolution 252: "...declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
    7. Resolution 256: "...condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation"
    8. Resolution 259: "...deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
    9. Resolution 313: "...demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
    10. Resolution 316: "...condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
    11. Resolution 317: "...deplores Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
    12. Resolution 332: "...condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"
    13. Resolution 444: "...deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
    14. Resolution 446: "...determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
    15. Resolution 450: "...calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
    16. Resolution 452: "...calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
    17. Resolution 465: "...deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"
    18. Resolution 467: "...strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"
    19. Resolution 468: "...calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
    20. Resolution 469: "...strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"
    21. Resolution 471: "...expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
    22. Resolution 476: "...reiterates that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are null and void"
    23. Resolution 478: "...censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"
    24. Resolution 484: "...declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
    25. Resolution 487: "...strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"
    26. Resolution 497: "...decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is null and void and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
    27. Resolution 498: "...calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
    28. Resolution 501: "...calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
    29. Resolution 509: "...demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
    30. Resolution 515: "...demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
    31. Resolution 517: "...censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
    32. Resolution 518: "...demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
    33. Resolution 520: "...condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut"
    34. Resolution 573: "...condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters"
    35. Resolution 587: "...takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
    36. Resolution 592: "...strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
    37. Resolution 605: "...strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians"
    38. Resolution 607: "...calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
    39. Resolution 608: "...deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
    40. Resolution 636: "...deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians"
    41. Resolution 641: "...deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians"
    42. Resolution 672: "...condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount"
    43. Resolution 673: "...deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations"
    44. Resolution 681: "...deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians"
    45. Resolution 694: "...deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return"
    46. Resolution 726: "...strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians"
    47. Resolution 799: "...strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return."
    (From Findley's Deliberate Deceptions, pages 188 - 192)

    Seems like sanctioning Israel is all the UN does. What it apparently does not do is sanction groups like the PLO. I looked by google for UN sanctions vs the PLO and could not find a one. I would like another here with better internet skills to find the UN sanctions vs Hamas, the PLO or Hezbollah.

    If I don't see any posted I think my original premise stands on its merit.
     
  12. Drifterwood

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    UN Sanctions are a "diplomatic" tool used to coerce States. They may cover entities such as Terrorist Groups, but essentially, the UN deals with States.
     
  13. tripod

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    Wild Goose... you are crying wolf.

    I am usually TOTALLY against the POLICIES of the Israeli government.

    Being against the policies of a government does not make one a racist.

    You have an oversimplified and adolescent view of the nature of criticism towards the policies of the Israeli government.

    So, you are in fact calling the members of this site that are critical of the policies of Israel anti-semitic.

    Anti-Semitics are truly hideous individuals, especially when the whole world knows what the consequences are when an ethnic group is scapegoated and targeted. The holocaust is always there for intelligent individuals.

    In my heart, I love Jews and think that they are the most amazing people on the planet. Yes, I single them out (in a positive way) because I think that they are special... I really do.

    Intelligent people hold Israel to a higher standard than other countries because JEWISH PEOPLE ARE OF A HIGHER STANDARD than other ethnic people...

    You had a thread about Ashkenazi Jews and their high intelligence... well they also have intense artistic abilities. Hell, the Jews have invented one of the world's most effective martial arts systems. Jewish people are limitless and are truly God's gift to mankind.

    I am probably one of this site's most vociferous opponents of the policies of the government of Israel as pertaining to how they treat their neighbors and the Palestinians.

    And I TOTALLY fucking resent your insinuation that the critics of Israel are somehow anti-Semitic.

    How dare you!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
     
  14. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I bolded a portion of your post because in its own quietly insidious way, that sounds a bit like anti semitism. Why should they get held to a higher standard? Because they are Jews and the *Chosen People?* Hmmmm? Isn't that unfair? Jews need to toe one line, every one else toes another? That sounds like prejudice, and this is coming from one who knows he is prejudiced.

    I would be curious to know how an Israeli felt being held to one standard while all else gets held to another. What do you call that?
     
  15. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I will take that as a "you are right WGC, the UN sanctions Israel way out of proportion to other organizations. " Hamas and the PLO stood for Palestinians. Like a state.
     
  16. Drifterwood

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    TOE the line. :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:
     
  17. tripod

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    Actually Israel is NOT held to a higher standard then other countries. I was playing hypothetical that if Israel was held to a higher standard then it would be because they are the world's most intelligent people... is that fucking prejudiced? It's prejudiced in a positive way. I can't change the fact that the Jewish people are the smartest people in the world... don't hold me responsible for that! lol!!!

    If thinking that the Jewish people are the smartest and most amazing people in the world is anti-Semitic in your eyes... then I don't know what to tell you.

    Israel is beheld to the standard of an occupying country... no more and no less. You must be deliberately suppressing that fact for some reason or just don't give a shit.

    Rubbish, Hamas and the PLO are not states.
     
    #17 tripod, Apr 9, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  18. B_Mister Buildington

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    Websters online defines racism as
    1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race


    just sayin'
     
  19. tripod

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    Listen newbie... did I say that their intelligence had anything to do with race? We had a thread about Ashkenazi intelligence and it was pretty much agreed that it was a result of ENVIRONMENTAL factors that were unique to the European Jews and the manner in which they lived (of course you wouldn't know that 'cause you don't know shit and are talking out of your ass).

    You're insulting my intelligence you twit.
     
  20. eddyabs

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    It's true that in Europe Ashkenazi Jews score higher than any other ethnic group in verbal and mathematical intelligence, but their visual and spatial intelligence is average.

    Israel, which is made up of roughly 50 percent Ashkenazi Jews, 30 percent other Jews and 20 percent other ethnicities, actually scores a lot lower than most of Europe, the United States and a broad sweep of SE Asia, when you actually include all elements of the IQ strata....mathematical, verbal, visual, spatial.....etc....

    And you Tripod, can state with authenticity that the Ashkenazi Jews or Jews are the most intelligent ethnicity in the world? I find your logic unsettling and unfounded. It's akin to me saying that because Men in general are visually/spatially superior in intelligence as averse to Women, that makes us the alpha intelligence.....we can just sweep the fact that Women in general score higher in Mathematical and Verbal intelligence under the proverbial carpet.


    I'm certainly not anti-semetic, but I'm definitely anti-sweeping generalisations.....
     
    #20 eddyabs, Apr 9, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
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