Any conspiracy theorists out there? - JFK - LBJ - FDR - ?

[oldriver]

Many years ago I read the book Best Evidence by David S. Lifton and that began my near-obsessive interest in the John F Kennedy assassination and the many theories surrounding it.

Shortly after that, I had a conversation with someone I had known for some time and who, I believed, had credibility and this person related to me his experience with someone who was a personal witness to some of the aftermath of President Franklin D Roosevelt's death in 1945. His revelation, even 3rd-hand, contradicted what I had always heard from history books. (Roosevelt died many years before I was even born.) His allegation was that FDR committed suicide.

Anyone out there interested in these kind of things?

 

[Xcuze]

Nope. Conspiracy theorists are usually very tiresome. Its easy to pick holes in any story but that doesnt make the story untrue. I think it also depends how far back the events happened. I can believe that 50 or so years ago it was much easier to hide the facts from the public. But in modern times there is so much media & communications that the truth will leak out one way or another.

 

[oldriver]

Point well made, XCUZE, and thanks for the reply.

I have a couple of my friends who share my interests and we swap stories we hear, mostly for entertainment. We know that, the more years that pass, the colder the trail becomes, and some things will never be explained to everyone's satisfaction. Just thought I'd throw a question or two out here and see if anyone responds in kind.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

only in debunking the idiocy that underlies all of them.

While conspiracies happen... they do not happen without leaving evidence.

As far as anyone knows, there were 30 people shooting at Kennedy... but the fact is that only ONE rifle actually HIT anyone.

Recent forensic reconstruction of Dealy plaza with accurate models that have been motion matched to ALL available photography.... ( that is... thousands of pictures were taken of the motorcade going thru the plaza... Only ONE possible path of motion will agree with EVERY photo taken... thus it is possible to reproduce the car, the occupants, the buildings and roads... and KNOW with 100% certainty that this is the only way it could have occurred )

Meyer's animated reconstruction show's categorically that no one shooting from the grassy knoll could possibly have hit Kennedy in the head...
And that the primary wounds thru Kennedy's throat and Conelley's chest, and the damage to the jumpseat, line up perfectly with a single round fired from the window of the depository.

The pattern of firing agrees with what is seen from riflemen firing downhill in a hurry...
Each successive shot tend to be higher than the point they are aiming for. The shooter, like any proper marksman, was aiming at the center of the body.
The first round hit a tree that came between the car and the rifle as he was tracking... the second round hit high of his mark, the base of the neck, the third round was higher still, just barely catching Kennedy's head.

While I can easily believe that the Cuban ambassador to Mexico City might have planted the idea in Oswald's head that if he shot someone important...they would let him in...

...the idea that anyone else was shooting is simply ridiculous.

No significant assassination in history required more than a single shooter.


And no sniper worth a crap would set up to shoot at a target moving laterally to his line of fire.
You get as close to behind them as you can so that the target's relative motion is reduced as much as is possible.




As to FDR... if he was going to commit suicide , he would not have invited his mistress along to create a scandal.
Anyone can see, in the photographs of him in the last six months of his life, the rapid deterioration in health that often precedes death.

He was a man who loved being in power... who was on the cusp of seeing the war won...
NO ONE who could have gotten where he had gotten would have willingly given up the glory of seeing the war won under his presidency...

 

[visualalert]

My sister's a c-theorist. She's a man-hating lesbian and a pretty mean/nasty person in general, sorry to say (I feel bad saying that cuz she's family, but then again Jeffrey Daumer was probably a cute kid at some point along the way).

She's one of those Democrats who decided in the 2000 election that when Dems lose a close race, it must be because of Repub cheating. That fantasy has morphed to her latest position (which she explained to me this week) that even when Dems win, it still means that Repubs cheated or the Dems would have won by bigger margins.

I used to try to engage her in reasonable conversation, now I just nod and smile. No sense arguing with the intellectual equivalent of a doorknob, ya know?

 

[Northland]

. ...His revelation, even 3rd-hand, contradicted what I had always heard from history books. (Roosevelt died many years before I was even born.) His allegation was that FDR committed suicide.

Anyone out there interested in these kind of things?

Oh yes, of course, 3rd hand information, that's always the pinnacle of accuracy and I'd be sure to believe it before anything else.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

She's one of those Democrats who decided in the 2000 election that when Dems lose a close race, it must be because of Repub cheating. That fantasy has morphed to her latest position (which she explained to me this week) that even when Dems win, it still means that Repubs cheated or the Dems would have won by bigger margins.

Actually, the actions of republican officials in Florida, a state governed by Bush's brother, DID amount to outright cheating...
Its not a conspiracy theory... the evidence is quote plain.

And that single state was enough to decide the election.

This does not mean, however, that democratic officials don't cheat when and where they can...

The die hard loyalists of any dogma are prone to moral relativism to further their agendas.

No one should ever "register" as being either.... keep your mind, and your options open.

 

[D_Della Doubledees]

I've seen a TON of JFK conspiracy movies, the moon landing conspiracy, movies on the conspiracies behind religion, the masons, you name it... I've probably watched it. LOL.
While I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, I do like watching conspiracy related movies...

I see bits and pieces of factual information in them... but they all take it too far. For me, that's the amusing part. I think it gives me a clearer perspective of where the 'edge ' is... Some of the people that make conspiracy movies have a "television evangelist of sorts" vibe about them, that makes them appear satirical.

I'll never forget the time I visited Dealey Plaza in Dallas. I went to the 6th Floor Museum... then I went to the "JFK Conspiracy Museum". I took a guided tour with a guy that looked a bit like Joe Pesci (but with bad skin) wearing a silk jogging suit. I had to take his picture... he was so animated ... having us all stand on the sidewalk, adjacent from the fatal head wound that's marked on the pavement... recanting the magic bullet theory.

LOL.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

I always look at conspiracy theory movies as an alternate timeline. Just Hollywood's way of saying "What if this had happened instead?" like Harry Turtledove brought to the screen.

 

[Penis Aficionado]

The problem with most conspiracy theorists is that

1) they assume superhuman levels of competence on the part of the conspirators;
2) they usually require the cooperation of many people, any one of whom could become rich and enshrine himself in history by revealing the truth about the conspiracy;
3) conspiracy theories are usually the most complicated possible answer to a question, and some wise person once said that the simplest explanation is the best.

The only conspiracy theory I ever really half believed in was that Kurt Cobain was killed by a hit man hired by Courtney Love.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

I don't know about the killer having been (hired by) Courtney Love, but the layout of the crime scene did make suicide extremely unlikely. I think in 20 years, Cobain will be the Jimmy Hoffa of his generation. People will still be speculating, because they still won't have come to an absolute conclusion as to how it happened.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

he sure seemed like a bummed out depressed kind of doofus to me...

Entirely believable that he killed himself.

Why would courtney have to kill him? He was raking in the money... she could have divorced him, and taken half of everything he had and everything he would earn...

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

His depression is what makes the suicide believable. But there was something about how the gun and his body were positioned, along with the unlikelihood of his being able to hold the shotgun pointed straight into his mouth and reach the trigger. It was all possible, but extremely improbable. Looked more like it was staged.

 

[oldriver]

Wow! Thanks for replies, all. I just went out for 9 holes of golf and see a bit of interest upon my return.

Sorry about my lack of knowledge of this Cobain/ Love deal, I'm more of an American political history buff, hence my interest in dead Presidents.

I'll watch this a few days and look forward to anyone's input. I always appreciate intelligent, civil discussions.

 

[marleyisalegend]

I have one-tooth yokel family down in Georgia that LOVE the conspiracy theories. Whitney Houston's a lesbian and Bobby Brown's her cover-up. Halle Berry's a transexual. The US army puts implants in it's soldiers so they can monitor them when they leave. Unfortuntaely I'm not joking, she really believes that stuff.

 

[Xcuze]

His depression is what makes the suicide believable. But there was something about how the gun and his body were positioned, along with the unlikelihood of his being able to hold the shotgun pointed straight into his mouth and reach the trigger. It was all possible, but extremely improbable. Looked more like it was staged.

Extremely improbable? Yeah, its far more probable that Love hired a hitman so she could get all his money This is a good example of how conspirisists come unstuck - replacing one improbability with an even bigger one!

 

[Calboner]

Conspiracy theorists are all zombies controlled by the Freemasons. Except me, of course.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

Extremely improbable? Yeah, its far more probable that Love hired a hitman so she could get all his money This is a good example of how conspirisists come unstuck - replacing one improbability with an even bigger one!

You'll notice I said I don't know about it having been someone hired by his wife, but good try anyway.

 

[oldriver]

Conspiracy theorists are all zombies controlled by the Freemasons. Except me, of course.

Thanks for the reply, Calboner; however, I respectfully disagree, as (1) I don't believe I'm a zombie, and (2) I am definitely not controlled by the Freemasons, as I am an atheist and do not believe in any supreme being.

(I pause here so you may notice my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, if you catch what I mean?)

Everyone, thank you for your responses, and keep them coming. I always enjoy hearing from anyone who doesn't blindly digest some of the pablum regarding the news that comes from the government and the media.

 

[Elmer Gantry]

I seriously doubt that FDR committed suicide. He did, however, have eight very serious attempts made on his life.