Anyone else notice...

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by DV8, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. DV8

    DV8
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    that a lot of threads on here focus on whether or not something is gay or not? What makes it even better is when it's asked if something acceptable or normal? We live in a society where social norms- the fears and ignorance of others dictate whether or not something is okay. As long as you're a good person, you treat others with the same respect you would want to be treated with, and you're not hurting anyone, what's the problem?

    I'm going to school to be a psychologist. I fear that I'll either be a great one, or a bad one- because I believe that "normal" doesn't exist. And anyone who believes they're normal lies to others and themselves. A lot. Who wants to be normal anyway? Cookie-cutter? Fuck that.

    To those of you this hits: Be accepting and cool with yourselves. Listen to, and follow yourselves.
     
  2. HunglikeaDork

    HunglikeaDork Member

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    Amen to that. Normality is relative. What you said reminds of Focault. :cool:
     
  3. True_Blue

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    You can say that again! There is a world of people with so many different tastes, personalities, sexualities, interests, and beliefs. Normal is nonexistent...
     
  4. Riven650

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    I like your attitude DrDante. Psychology is a tremendously interesting subject, and I'm sure you'll do very well at it.
     
  5. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    Totally agree with you DrDante. And I'm a psych student too. I think we might be OK though - even for a DSM diagnosis, the problem needs to bother the individual or have a negative impact on their lives.
     
  6. luka82

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    You speak the truth Dante! :redface::redface:
     
  7. boyo333

    boyo333 New Member

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    My friend.... You have got it right!.
     
  8. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    Well said!

    Who wants to be 'normal' (not that there is such a thing) we are all unique and diversity is what makes the world such an interesting place.
     
  9. DV8

    DV8
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    I'm Glad to see that you all agree :) And being compared to Foucault? Hell yeah!!!
     
  10. B_stanmarsh14

    B_stanmarsh14 New Member

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    As one well known person once said..... What is normal?

    It's all bollocks if you ask me.
     
  11. minimag

    minimag Active Member

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    Everyone these days is a perverted sex-freak, so we're in good company. :D
     
  12. DV8

    DV8
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    Agreed :D
     
  13. Ramsey

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    Yay! I get to be the rock in the path here.

    Some sort of normal HAS to be described, or else molesting children is acceptable. Are there many tastes in sexuality? Yes! Are all of them good? No. What if I get off on watching animals have sex with children? Should I be stopped because of it? I'm sure some of you will get all defensive that I'm using "extreme" examples, but that just shows you, there is a line. Some things are acceptable, and some are not. Most people call that line "normal". Are there debatable areas on both sides of that line? Of course.

    Don't want to apply it to sexuality? Fine, what about lying? Is lying normal? While lying can be used for good in some situations, are you ever going to be able to trust a liar? No. "oh, don't judge them, they're just not honest, they can't help it". Bullshit.

    True_Blue said "You can say that again! There is a world of people with so many different tastes, personalities, sexualities, interests, and beliefs. Normal is nonexistent..."
    Yes, we are all different, but again, tastes and interests and beliefs are different to a point. Take sex. We desire sex for pleasure, not pain. If you desire sex to cause pain it is either rape, or sadism. Both of these acts are not "normal". So now we are defining the opposite of "normal". If there is one thing, there is it's opposite. You can't avoid it.
     
  14. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    Sadism isn't normal :eek: Guess that means masochism isn't either. Yay, I still get to be weird!

    I quite liked your post overall though :wink:. You have definitely made a good point that we all need to remember - there does need to be lines drawn somewhere.

    My friend has a bag that I really love. It has written on it 'Normal people scare me'.
     
  15. DV8

    DV8
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    I can see your points, but I must disagree. As I stated before- if you're not hurting anyone, and no one is either being violated or has been violated to suit your sexual interests, I don't see the issue. If a man want to see a child get sexually penetrated by an animal, even though it's not something that I would find acceptable- I'm not going to judge him. As long as he is not in possession of such pornography (because that would mean that the child was violated somewhere in this world) or he isn't making this happen, he can think what he wants. What must be remembered is that it's both nature and nurture that contribute to what we find sexually gratifying. At one point in our history, it was normal for a girl to be partnered and married at 12, and in Korea, the age of consent is 13. I may not agree with these things, but they are what they are. And you did go a bit extreme.

    And as for someone being a liar? Really?! Everyone lies, whether we like it or not, it happens- it's the reality of things. Even a slight exaggeration in a story is a lie. Who are you or anyone to try to find level that classifies someone as being a liar? It's not cool- no one wants to be lied to, but it happens. You could have a dear, sweet relative on her death bed- looks like hell and death is breathing at her neck- if you tell her that she looks so much better, that's a lie. Don't try to rationalize it because your intentions were good. Call it for what it is.
     
  16. B_infid3l

    B_infid3l New Member

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    Totally agree with all you've said, DrDante.

    I don't think there is any such thing as normal either. There is only what is acceptable, and what is not.

    I don't see normal and acceptable as being the same thing at all in this context.

    To me, normal describes what happens naturally, what can be expected generally... for instance I generally expect that people who say they have never felt a thrill when thoughts of un-acceptable sexual situations cross their mind may be lying. Not all of them are, but very few aren't.

    Acceptable describes what should be allowed. What individuals and society will allow. I don't think anyone has the right to constrict what's allowed in another's mind; their thoughts. I find that unacceptable.

    As long as no one is being or has been hurt (in any way), I think it shouldn't matter what is going on in someone's passing random thoughts or in their ongoing fantasies.
     
  17. Mastur

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    My favourite motto nowadays is:
    Kindly take your idea of 'normalcy' and shove it up your arse!
     
  18. Ramsey

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    I think what you people are railing against is not "normalcy" or acceptability but a cookie cutter level of society where everything is the same. Obviously there should be variety.

    But in regards to "not causing anyone pain" I challenge you with this: There are a lot of things in this world that damage us and are destructive to us and others but we don't realize it at the time. Take alcoholism. Is that a good or normal thing? No, we would all find it unacceptable and the person needs help. And you can't tell that the person is making the situation worse by drinking-until there is a definite problem. So it doesn't look like they are hurting themselves or others but they are.

    Your post DrDante seems to show that you know at least a sense of the "normalcy" but you just don't want to accept it. I know you don't want to look at anything in a "judgemental" fashion, but if you dig into this mindset, it's all happy fluffy accepting sounding without solving any real problems. Your post sounded very angry and defensive towards me, making me seem like I'm trying to be the arbiter of what is right and wrong (yes, there is such a thing as right and wrong no matter how you doll it up) or as if I'm trying to be the judge of such things. I'm not, I'm trying to get you to challenge your view. You need to start at the extremes and work your way in to find where things are acceptable and not acceptable.

    And yes, I bring up lying as an example. Your post even recognizes that you know what is a lie and what is not. But will you trust a politician who lies to you? Are you going to trust a friend who says they will help watch your house while you are gone and they end up taking some of your stuff? I bring this up because I don't think anyone in their right mind would say it's ok. There would need to be some sort of "judgement" about those people. I know we want to live in a loving accepting world where everything is ok, but it's just not totally possible in this world.
     
  19. DV8

    DV8
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    Thank you for your input, and I do apologize if that's the way my post came off; I can assure that it wasn't my intentions. I will go ahead and state that alcoholism is a completely different story- you're comparing how we as people allow the opinions and judgment of others to mold and make us feel shame to something that is detrimental to ones health, and family. Not the same. And as one who has seen alcoholism "at its finest", I can tell you that it's not because someone is just addicted to drinking. There's emotions there- and people deal with them in different ways; we all have our vices. But that's a person you get help for- so that they don't hurt themselves or possibly get behind the wheel of a car and hurt someone else.

    Would I trust a politician? Hell no. Politicians are lawyers, and lawyers gets paid to tell the truth, tell some of the truth-hide the rest, or not the truth at all. But if I ever wanted/needed to keep my ass out of jail, I'd gladly pay that lying son of a bitch. People do it everyday. Would I say that it's okay if I had a friend watch my house and they stole from me? No- of course not, and more than likely, that friendship would be over so I'd never have to worry about them stealing from me ever again. Like I said- everyone lies, but you don't get upset or blink an eye until you discover the truth. That's the reality of it.

    And no, I know that it is not possible to live in a loving, accepting world where everything is okay, but hell- I can at least do my part in making it comfortable for myself and others. The problem with most of the world is that so many people make it a point to get in everyone else's business, and don't even acknowledge their own.
     
    #19 DV8, Aug 13, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  20. Bbucko

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    I have not put stock in the opinions of others (particularly strangers) since my childhood; part of that is having a developmentally disabled sister born 10 years after me. Another part comes from having two alcoholics/addicts for parents. I'm not sure I had any grounding in reality until my independence at age 18, and even that took years before it really penetrated.

    To a degree, both parents, but most especially my mother, have had the rare privilege all their lives to either construct or interpret reality through a prism of utter unreality and falsehood, allied and abetted by their addictions. Growing up, my sisters and I (being the eldest) lived in a dreamscape of illusions and deceptions. There are hundreds of examples, but perhaps the clearest to explain briefly is this:

    I was born in January, 1960; my sister was born in May, 1962. In 1992, when I was 32 year old, I was at the beach one day with her and I suddenly grabbed her arm.
    "How far apart in age are we?" I asked her.
    Without thinking, she replied "Eighteen months apart." My mother had always maintained that, and we never questioned that.
    "Count on your fingers," I told her. "January 1960 to January 1962 is 24 months, then add five more: that's twenty-nine months."
    She looked at me with the oddest look, as if either I were lying or else "pink" suddenly had turned "green": "Oh my fucking gawd! You're right!"

    When people who don't know me very well hear me speak casually that complete estrangement is the only possible way of coping with my mother (who also rages uncontrollably and unpredictably), I'm either viewed as bitter or a complete asshole. She's my mother after all: I should feel the need to have her in my life. The fact is that it's just simply too painful for me to abide by her view of reality; it's like she lives in some weird alternate universe, and it necessitates a trip over there every time you talk with her: and she's never, ever wrong, never.

    Oh, and we're eighteen months apart :cool:

    I think that Ramsey is confounding "normal" with "acceptable" or "tolerable"; I rarely use the word "normal" because it just sounds hollow in my ears. Instead, I tend to use the word "standard".

    There are many things in life that are intolerable and completely unacceptable, and each individual gets to make his/her own judgements regarding where those boundaries exist; we even allow society at large to shape our lives through laws and stigmas. There are many things I accept as "standard", though I don't necessarily feel the need to adhere to the lowest common denominator, which is what "normal" means in everyday speech most of the time.

    I also sincerely believe that just because something's legal doesn't make it right, and just because something's illegal doesn't make it wrong. This relativism is and always has been an essential part of my psyche and explains why I describe myself as an Individualist Anarchist. I've never been arrested :wink:
     
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