Anyone read Firelands?

[jonb]

I was thinking of buying it. Finally, a gay novel about something other than coming out.

 

[Pecker]

Hmmm....

Hugh's Lick = San Francisco?

Wendigo = John Ashcroft?

Seriously, I like surprise endings. This one sounds interesting. Do you mind if I just read the last chapter?

 

[MischievousOne]

Hey jonb,

Just bought it yesterday, and I managed it in two sittings. The story itself is great, if the writing isn't stellar. Definitely give it a shot, then check out Michael Jensen's other book, Frontiers, which will give you more history on one of the other characters.

 

[jonb]

That's the problem a lot of romances have, and a lot of horror novels. (What a combination.)

As you might've guessed, Indian men didn't have any reason not to take male lovers, without the "orgasm without hope of pregnancy is murder" nonsense the Church taught. Even today, the gayest county in the Midwest is actually also an Indian reservation.

 

[madame_zora]

So that's what the right-wingers are mad about- men having fun without breeding new right-wingers! I should have known...

 

[jonb]

What? No jokes about "I'm moving to Shannon County."? Jana, I'm surprised.

As for not breeding right-wingers, you do have a point there; basically the big focus on sodomy came about as a result of the economic advantages of children. Some time in the 20th century, it came to only apply to homosexuals because otherwise they'd lose their whole congregation.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by jonb@Jan 16 2005, 11:31 PM
What? No jokes about "I'm moving to Shannon County."? Jana, I'm surprised.

As for not breeding right-wingers, you do have a point there; basically the big focus on sodomy came about as a result of the economic advantages of children. Some time in the 20th century, it came to only apply to homosexuals because otherwise they'd lose their whole congregation.

[post=274953]Quoted post[/post]​

Oh, I just figured all my constant drooling gets old now and then. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten that you told me about all the tall skinny Indian men on the reservations...if they're bisexual too, I may seriously have to make travel plans!

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by jonb@Jan 15 2005, 02:47 PM
That's the problem a lot of romances have, and a lot of horror novels. (What a combination.)

As you might've guessed, Indian men didn't have any reason not to take male lovers, without the "orgasm without hope of pregnancy is murder" nonsense the Church taught. Even today, the gayest county in the Midwest is actually also an Indian reservation.

[post=274794]Quoted post[/post]​

"orgasm without hope of pregnancy is murder" an interesting phrase. I was brought up in the church and have missed on the average maybe two Sundays a year. This is the first I have ever heard this phrase, though I think I know where it comes from. There is more than one branch of Christianity. My branch holds no posiition such as that.

In the old days, it was thought that the semen contained the seed. The woman was just the soil as in planting a seed in a flower pot. The ancients didn't know that new "seed" as in semen was being produced all the time. Whether you orgasm or not the sperm that is in the body will die unless it fertilizes an egg.

But the ancients and middle ages people didn't know all that. The idea of a sperm uniting with an egg from the mother is fairly new knowledge as far as history goes.

Part of the church as a whole also taught that sex was a sin even between a husband and a wife. But it was forgivable for the creation of children.

To the best of my knowledge, this is not found in the Bible, but was part of Christian doctrine in the Middle Ages and still is for some Christians. Though why is beyond me. The doctrine is not practiced by many people.

There is a gap between what some people say they believe and what is their behavior. Sex is one of those areas.

 

[jonb]

Jana --
Well, that's South Dakota for you. Just don't expect any kind of big gifts; reservations are like Third World countries. In other words, like India, only with a McDonald's and enough room to breathe. LOL

Freddie --
Well, that's not the exact term, but in the Catholic Church, use of contraception is considered equal to murder because you're preventing a life from beginning. Most fundie churches consider any homosexual act equal to mass genocide because to them all sin is the same, but they only focus on sins that a small minority engage in. (Of course, since mass genocide can spread fundie memes, they're willing to forgive da Shrub for the Iraq war.)

 

[madame_zora]

Oh, I think there would be plenty of "big gifts" of the type I'd be interested in!

Fundies and their bullshit suck all the fun out of everything.

 

[jonb]

LOL I meant, don't expect a Ferrari or anything.

 

[madame_zora]

Considering I'm driving a '78 Thunderbird with bad brakes, it would be the last thing on my mind. I'd be there for the "scenery".

Hey, they even have McDonalds in India in the bigger cities now! It kinda made me sad to think of that. I like India being a place where Idealism is still held in higher regard. Hindus are a gentle people, I can't help but think our western infection cannot be a good thing.

 

[jonb]

I was referring to the fact that we don't have any qualms about killing a bovid for food. As for idealism, some degree of realism is useful; I mean, remember, Bush is against the "reality-based community".

 

[madame_zora]

Oh, I sure am a staunch believer in realism, too great a departure from it leads to being a whackoid&#33; I just like the idea of India being the gentle race, even too tenderhearted to kill cows when she&#39;s hungry. Throughout history, she has only been in wars that were forced, her only goal was to get out of war. Even though the separation between India and Pakistan was so violent, it was primarily because of the Hindu&#39;s objection to the Muslim&#39;s warlike ways, you just never hear of Hindus attacking anyone. Never any desire to dominate, only to live in peace unmolested by the outside world. As for bova, if we wern&#39;t supposed to eat them, they shouldn&#39;t be so tasty&#33; <<small joke, I actually eat very little meat>>

 

[jonb]

And what&#39;s bad is, Pakistan supports Al Qaeda and supports proliferation, but Bush doesn&#39;t go after them. (The whole India/Pakistan/Bangladesh civil war gets confusing. All I know is, any woman from any of those three countries will either be a fox or a dog.)

 

[madame_zora]

Geez, I&#39;m a bitch, so I guess I know where I stand&#33;

Pakistan has had immense trouble getting along with itself, let alone any other nation. I have never understood what those particular people are so angry about, but their anger never seems quenched. I know far less than I should about the Muslim religion, but it does seem to be a cultural thing (being warlike). No, bush won&#39;t be going after Pakistan unless it is discovered that they are sitting on a huge oil field, I don&#39;t think he&#39;s interested in their crops or merch.

 

[jonb]

My theory is it all goes back to Abraham&#39;s Laius complex.

 

[madame_zora]

Hmm, I&#39;m trying to connect the dots...that was likened to the Oedipal complex, if I&#39;m not badly mistaken....you&#39;re going to have to help me out.

 

[jonb]

It&#39;s the father&#39;s side of the Oedipal conflict.

 

[zzorus]

Oh, I sure am a staunch believer in realism, too great a departure from it leads to being a whackoid&#33; I just like the idea of India being the gentle race, even too tenderhearted to kill cows when she&#39;s hungry.

I think there is an economic explanation for making cows sacred. They were simply too valuable to eat, even in times of famine. Valuable in the sense of their importance: apart from milk, they provided transport and labour.
Their most important role was to provide fuel. Even today, cow dung mixed with straw is a major, if not the major, domestic fuel supply in rural India, and in parts of some cities.
So cows became sacred in order to protect them from being slaughterd for food in times of famine-or at any other time.