Anyone Watched The Fourth Democratic Presidential Debate?

TobinDarren

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in specific, what is your impression of how Elizabeth Warren did?

i am just watching it. and i have to say while i like Elizabeth Warren. i am bit frustrated with her refusal to answer the basic question of whether or not she will raise taxes for the middle class to pay for her medicare for all plan.

it is simple question that could be answered with a yes and no.

i feel like her continued evasion of it is not doing her any favor, but maybe i am wrong.
 
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TexanStar

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Yes I saw it and yes she needs to lay it out. I don't see this changing the landscape but Mayor Pete did well, may see a gain when Biden falters.

See, I thought the opposite about Pete Buttigieg. I thought he came across bitter and angry at everyone the whole night. I like a lot of his policy ideas, but the angry young man routine is not good optics for him.

And I'll take a criticism Beto directed towards Pete and apply it more broadly to the whole field. The progressive candidates are pursuing big changes with the intent to benefit all Americans. Setting aside the feasability of pulling it off, the intent is the betterment of America and they know it's an uphill battle and it takes a degree of courage to try and pull those things off.

You can stake out a more moderate position and explain why you think that would be better long term without being an asshole about it. When you're a moderate democrat criticizing progressive democrats, you're criticizing people who's hearts are in the right place but you think are being too optimistic about their plans. That's not the time to be a dick.

Maybe mayor Pete doesn't need a lesson in courage, but he most certainly needs one in manners.
 
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keenobserver

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See, I thought the opposite about Pete Buttigieg. I thought he came across bitter and angry at everyone the whole night. I like a lot of his policy ideas, but the angry young man routine is not good optics for him.

And I'll take a criticism Beto directed towards Pete and apply it more broadly to the whole field. The progressive candidates are pursuing big changes with the intent to benefit all Americans. Setting aside the feasability of pulling it off, the intent is the betterment of America and they know it's an uphill battle and it takes a degree of courage to try and pull those things off.

You can stake out a more moderate position and explain why you think that would be better long term without being an asshole about it. When you're a moderate democrat criticizing progressive democrats, you're criticizing people who's hearts are in the right place but you think are being too optimistic about their plans. That's not the time to be a dick.

Maybe mayor Pete doesn't need a lesson in courage, but he most certainly needs one in manners.

I think Pete's manners are fine. First the feasibility of what a candidate wants to do is the only thing that matters. If a candidate cannot connect the dots from where we are to where we want to go,guess what? No one is going to go anywhere.

Beto has managed to energize the GOP /NRA base better that any one with rant about seizing guns. He admits even if by the grace of God and Julie it is passed there is no good way to enforce it. He needs to sit down. He probably could have given us a seat in the Senate but no, he "was born to be in it." He needs to sit down.

Tulsi is better suited to be Trump's running mate, since she is still an Assad sympathizer.

Pete was also right to check Warren on the tax issue because it is a really big issue. I still like Warren but she and Bernie need to do a better job of getting voters to see the big picture. They are not there yet.

This is not a friendly social chat. A little yelling is needed now and then.
 

Max_Polo

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Yes I saw it and yes she needs to lay it out. I don't see this changing the landscape but Mayor Pete did well, may see a gain when Biden falters.

She cannot provide those details or it will end her candidacy. There's not enough money in the evil corporations (which she says will require national charters and other economy-killing actions) and billionaires to fund her plans.

I didn't watch the entire debate but thought Mayor Pete did quite well also.

Robert Francis looks like the idiot he actually is.

Happy Halloween!

 

keenobserver

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She cannot provide those details or it will end her candidacy. There's not enough money in the evil corporations (which she says will require national charters and other economy-killing actions) and billionaires to fund her plans.

I didn't watch the entire debate but thought Mayor Pete did quite well also.

Robert Francis looks like the idiot he actually is.

Happy Halloween!


The waning signs have been out there for a while. California is struggling with the costs of their plan and Vermont which passed a Medicare-for-all plan cannot find a way to fund it that does not raise taxes really high. I think Medicare for all will be the hill that will kill the Democrats unless they opt for a public option and allow existing plans to stand. Getting rid of Trump s more important than any issue - even Medicare for all.
 
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Max_Polo

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The waning signs have been out there for a while. California is struggling with the costs of their plan and Vermont which passed a Medicare-for-all plan cannot find a way to fund it that does not raise taxes really high. I think Medicare for all will be the hill that will kill the Democrats unless they opt for a public option and allow existing plans to stand. Getting rid of Trump s more important than any issue - even Medicare for all.

Of course it will not work. My take on the strategy and priorities is a bit different of course. :cool:
 
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TexanStar

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She cannot provide those details or it will end her candidacy. There's not enough money in the evil corporations (which she says will require national charters and other economy-killing actions) and billionaires to fund her plans.

I didn't watch the entire debate but thought Mayor Pete did quite well also.

Robert Francis looks like the idiot he actually is.

Happy Halloween!


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Max_Polo

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Do you think Mr Trump deserves a second term as President?

Qualified no, but... When I consider the economic and moral devastation that would result from a Warren presidency, I'll sure as hell vote for him.

Heard a great interview last week with Megan McCain - an unashamed, vocal and unrepentant Trump hater (certainly with good reason). When your candidate is scary enough to get Megan McCain to vote for Trump, you know you're in trouble in middle America.
 

Industrialsize

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Qualified no, but... When I consider the economic and moral devastation that would result from a Warren presidency, I'll sure as hell vote for him.

Heard a great interview last week with Megan McCain - an unashamed, vocal and unrepentant Trump hater (certainly with good reason). When your candidate is scary enough to get Megan McCain to vote for Trump, you know you're in trouble in middle America.
The moral devastation from electing Ms. Warren? That's funny seeing who is the current occupant of the White House.
 

Klingsor

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She cannot provide those details or it will end her candidacy. There's not enough money in the evil corporations (which she says will require national charters and other economy-killing actions) and billionaires to fund her plans.

Can we finally dispense with this whole foolish pipe dream? No country in the world provides universal healthcare--it's just not possible! :mad:
 

Max_Polo

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Can we finally dispense with this whole foolish pipe dream? No country in the world provides universal healthcare--it's just not possible! :mad:

Actually, it is possible.

Healthcare is a privilege, not a right. Rights do not require action on the part of another. Full stop. Your right to freedom of religion does not require me to build your church.

That said, we are a wealthy society and the reasons societies exist include community and societal well-being, and I would argue that to provide healthcare for all members of a society is a moral good.
 

Max_Polo

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Does that include taking children from their mothers?

You mean those who enter the country illegally, I assume. Of course, that's quite a different issue than the taking of American individual's possessions - because they have broken the law.

News flash: if my wife is driving with our children and she is arrested, our children would not be detained with her.

And, a refresher on the topic you bring up.

TRUMP on detention centers at the border: “President Obama is the one that built those prison cells.” — Telemundo interview.

TRUMP: “President Obama built the cages. Remember when they said that I built them?” — “Meet the Press” interview.

THE FACTS: He has a point. Whether they are called prison cells or something else, Obama held children in temporary, ill-equipped facilities and built a large center in McAllen, Texas, that is used now.

Democrats routinely and inaccurately blame Trump for creating “cages” for children. They are actually referring to chain-link fencing inside the McAllen center — Obama’s creation.