are fairy tales a crime against feminism?

[rawbone8]

Why did fairy tales persist for so long as popular stories?

I think one of the reasons fairy tales continued to resonate for a long time is that they often use symbolic characters that portray the various good and bad aspects of the parent, which are writ large and heroic or monstrous. The evil that can be portrayed in an "other" such as the wolf, the giant, the witch, the stepmother... contain elements of the child's fears that might relate to the father or the mother, but can't be represented as such, because that would be really terrifying. The Giant is dad and The Wicked Stepmother is mom, with the safe fictional distance that allows a child to feel safe and explore the drama of intensely negative conflicts.

That's just a hunch.

 

[spoon]

Do'nt blame the actress, blame the writer and the director. They tell them what to say and how to act.

yes, the writer and director tell them their lines and "block" whatever is happening, (what the character says, and, where they move in the scene.) doesn't mean their acting is any good. it's 2 different things.

 

[B_Coconutz]

yes, the writer and director tell them their lines and "block" whatever is happening, (what the character says, and, where they move in the scene.) doesn't mean their acting is any good. it's 2 different things.

Nah, I've seen really great actors pull really shitty moves. The directors choose how many takes that needs to happen, or not. I agree that some actors make it real easy for the directors to publish the scene.

 

[MickeyLee]

i did get thru the first book. i started it and forced myself to finish. that was it, i was done.

i can't put my finger on it, but, there is something that bothers me about the actress that plays bella. while i was watching her, i had an urge to just slap the crap out of her.

someone i love happens to love the twilight books. i made it through the first two books. had to stop reading the books before i stopped loving my person :tongue:

 

[B_Coconutz]

OK, on a final note. Are fairy tales a crime against feminism? Is bugs bunny a crime against reality? Do you want to base your life on reality, or do you want to keep pretending to be a victim? You are the only one responsible for that.

 

[D_Pokin Joe Frazier]

If they were every guy on this site with a 9 inch dick or bigger would get life in prison;-)

 

[D_Sharon Taint]

Maybe it's because I am a bit younger and don't have any children, but I don't take issue with fairy tales. I cherish the ones I grew up with and it isn't for any of the learned reasons.... they were just entertaining, colorful, and fun. Then re-wind the VHS a billion times and watch it all over again with static marks on the screen from a stretched tape. :biggrin1:

No doubt some had an impact on me as a female, but while growing up I was educated to see the fundamental disconnect between entertainment and reality, as well as sex role portrayal in the media. Heck, even as a kid I understood the "fairy" part, and knew that none of the content was even remotely plausible.

They're a mixture of good and bad: gender roles are apparent, but there are some good messages too. I guess the bottom line is they exist for entertainment purposes and are supposed to be fanciful in whatever way the writer envisaged.

 

[playerclient]

Go fuck yourself.

The post wasn't directed at you and the person it was directed against needs to learn to tell the difference between the phrase 'fairy tales' and 'the twilight books'.

Reported.

Lack of civility on these boards is a major issue and has been the subject of much comment as being a problem. Whether or not someone's hostility is directed at me or not, it is an issue of concern to me as it is to everyone here. Incivility and hostility are major problems here, as on any board anywhere, and work against the positive purposes of why this site and these forums exist.

I didn't strike out at you, I pointed out that you'd been hostile, off-base in your reply, arrogant, and obnoxious in your comment and suggested that you needed to "dial it back a bit," a pretty slight rebuke and a suggestion at base, not an attack.

In your response to me you've further revealed a lack of humility and abundance of hostility. Yours is a most juvenile reply:

1. Instead of acknowledging the ways in which you were wrong, you attack me.
2. You get pedantic in trying to split hairs between "twilight books" and "fairly tales." Please, as if that's what matters here and as if that's something worth getting hostile about.
3. MickyLee was the one who introduced the phrase "crime against humanity"--take it up with her if you're so bothered.
4. Monstro--who you slammed was responding to MickyLee's thoughts; Are posters unable to introduce new phrasing or new ideas when they post in a thread, as both MickyLee and Monstro did? Then why not slam her, too?

When you're wrong, admit it., or look even worse. Your pedantic (empty) attack in the first place was ridiculous, but your inability to acknowledge you were out of line that you attempt to buttress with further pedantic backpedalling is downright hilarious. It's so amazing to see someone get so bent out of shape over nothing and then be unable to say simply, "I'm sorry. I was out of line."

If have it out for Monstro for some other reason, it's still not appropriate to go on the attack over something else that was not hostile or offensive to you or anyone.

You sometimes stomp around these forums with hostility and arrogance--I'll gladly point out some other recent examples if you wish. Your behavior and attitude is often counterproductive. Since I seek healthy dialogues that are productive, respectful, open-minded, and civil in these forums, I called you out on a particularly egregious example of uncivil, counterproductive behavior that I think can be accurately labeled "bullying."

You were wrong in multiple ways. That's it.

Take a look in the mirror, admit your errors, and apologize to relevant parties--the entire community, for one.

 

[MickeyLee]

somebody's word of the day is pedantic :smile:

is always important to use your new word in a sentence.
or several sentences.
just don't get carried away, kids!

 

[playerclient]

somebody's word of the day is pedantic :smile:

is always important to use your new word in a sentence.
or several sentences.
just don't get carried away, kids!

Not a new word for me. Happens to be the proper label for the action and I didn't see the point in using a synonym, for which a good one doesn't quite exist for the situation.

More juvenile behavior in your post.

Ignore the person who gets hostile, ignore the substance, be immature by taunting.

If she were consistent, she would've slammed you for not being able to read, too.

Enjoy your reindeer games, you two. You, too, have just revealed your lack of integrity. If someone who wasn't your friend did what she did to Monstros to someone you liked, you'd object, I bet.

Class. Try it sometime.

 

[dolfette]

ignore me.
i'm just here to laugh.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I don't see anyone here fucking themselves.

I can wait all day. *taps foot*

 

[spoon]

Nah, I've seen really great actors pull really shitty moves. The directors choose how many takes that needs to happen, or not. I agree that some actors make it real easy for the directors to publish the scene.

yes, great actors have pulled really shitty moves. maybe director gave them to much freedom in a scene and the actor played it-not so well. or, the actors ego gets in the way and they perform not so well. but, what i was getting at with the woman that plays bella is---to me, she has some strange energy about her that comes out in her acting. i just find her annoying.

 

[spoon]

OK, on a final note. Are fairy tales a crime against feminism? Is bugs bunny a crime against reality? Do you want to base your life on reality, or do you want to keep pretending to be a victim? You are the only one responsible for that.

had to bring this up. saw bugs mentioned. bugs is one of the biggest cross dressers on tv. yeah bugs!

 

[Ethyl]

Why did fairy tales persist for so long as popular stories?

I think one of the reasons fairy tales continued to resonate for a long time is that they often use symbolic characters that portray the various good and bad aspects of the parent, which are writ large and heroic or monstrous. The evil that can be portrayed in an "other" such as the wolf, the giant, the witch, the stepmother... contain elements of the child's fears that might relate to the father or the mother, but can't be represented as such, because that would be really terrifying. The Giant is dad and The Wicked Stepmother is mom, with the safe fictional distance that allows a child to feel safe and explore the drama of intensely negative conflicts.

That's just a hunch.

This. Was hoping to see this somewhere in the thread. Bruno Bettleheim, Maria Tatar, Freud, Jung, Marie Louis-Von Franz, Joseph Campbell, Jack Zipes, and about a dozen others have all delved into the psychology of fairy tales and pointed out the safe framework they offer children for self- exploration and problem solving.

There are scads of tales about that go beyond glass slippers, evil mothers, and happiness by marrying well. You have to search for them.

 

[SurferGirlCA]

I read Anne Rice's erotic re-imagining of the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale and I was shocked at how hot it got me. It was filled with all sorts of fetish/role-playing, from b/d to s/m and group sex to orgasm denial and even kinkier stuff. Parts of it horrified me but other parts were so intense I got sexually aroused even just reading them - and I mean aroused. I ended up reading the entire trilogy and it actually caused me to re-think my sexual interests and made me much more aware of my own desires and fantasies. I'm sure some feminists would find it objectionable and I'm sure some hardcore fetishists would laugh at it, but I've never been as sexually aroused by anything I've read before or since.

 

[MickeyLee]

is the choke-slam marketing of Princess to young girls. if you cruise around the for kids section, the lil girl area is a pink trademarked nightmare

forget what classic fairytales are doing to your kids, watch Disney like a fucking hawk. those bastards want you to pay to mess your daughters up.

one of my nieces will require deprogramming before puberty.

really, i am just sick girls being sold an identity that can be stenciled on the ass of a pair of sweatpants/yogapants. :irked:

 

[rob_just_rob]

are fairy tales a crime against feminism?

Probably. As is most popular culture from more than about 30 years ago.

 

[dolfette]

that was a clever post :smile: