Are foreign workers taking your jobs?

chico8

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NAFTA was signed into being by William Jefferson Clinton, so some of the blame should rest on his shoulders, not just Bush's. Not that I have much love for Bush, but Clinton isn't "squeaky clean" in this mess. No doubt the other countries got the better end of the deal and the US is left with the barn door open.

Clinton didn't create NAFTA, it was instituted by bush I, however, Clinton was a big proponent of free trade. Unfortunately, his vision was bastardized by corporate America and free trade came to mean US corporations were free to pillage third world economies. bush II continues to strong arm third world countries and the World Bank has devastated many countries through their "free trade at any cost" policy.

If the US weren't so interested in pillaging the third world, there would be a lot fewer economic refugees seeking access to the US.
 

transformer_99

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Clinton didn't create NAFTA, it was instituted by bush I, however, Clinton was a big proponent of free trade. Unfortunately, his vision was bastardized by corporate America and free trade came to mean US corporations were free to pillage third world economies. bush II continues to strong arm third world countries and the World Bank has devastated many countries through their "free trade at any cost" policy.

If the US weren't so interested in pillaging the third world, there would be a lot fewer economic refugees seeking access to the US.

I agree, Clinton's reign was the closest thing to responsible free trade we'll see for a long time coming. That doesn't come from being a Democrat, Republican or whatever, but the inflation during these Bush administrations has just been absurdly ridiculous. I read another's post about moving from cheap labor source to cheap labor source and that most certainly is true. NAFTA did marginally improve wages and work conditions for some in Mexico, but at the detriment of the US. When Mexican labor can't compete with Far East labor that's where this nation turned even more so than it has.

The more I think about the chinese fighter-US spy plane incident back in 2001, that was Bush just getting closer to China to see what he could measure it for in terms of profitability. It was his little calling card to get Neil Bush an in with the Chinese government and industry.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Bush"
 

shuerte

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I find that highly suspect, but even if it were true, there are plenty of immigration issues in Europe as well as the U.S. - it seems to me immigration puts them on a similar playing field, rather than disadvantaging the U.S. And, if it's education quality and snobbishness we're worried about, we've got plenty of work to do among native-born americans.
Europe has a much more well developed welfare system. But for US, it's like making the upper class better while pushing midd to low worse off.
Several days ago a Duke economist said foreign countries produce the goods and the US is the market from which the workforce benefits a lot. Apparently he's speaking for those in the office and who have power.
 

AussieHusky

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We have a similar problem in Australia, last year our government changed our work laws to make it MUCH easier to fire people, take away extra benefits, and use imported labour. The other problem we have is Asians seem to get preferential treatment, My family provides homestay which is foreign students coming to aus to study, Within 2 weeks the asian students without fail manage to change their study visa to a year long work visa, To renew it all they have to do is leave the country for the day. This has happened 36 times with students we have had with us, Yet European and American students cant even get a study visa to extend, We have had several wonderful Europeans who desperatly wanted to continue studying here yet they wernt aloud to. This seems totally bias and unfair all because our goverment wants in on the Asian economy, With over 700 Harvard level universities being built in China this year they will soon flood the market with highly educated people willing to work for nothing which will destroy us.
 

dolf250

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To dolf250. I'm not sure if you're aware of the immigration laws in Canada (same goes for States), but in order for a company to get foreign workers they have to have some really good reason to do so, education, experience etc.
...unless you have really good credentials and something that makes you unique in comparison to other Canadian citizens, the chances of getting a work visa are really slim.

I am aware of the immigration laws, but you don't seem to be aware that here in Alberta most of it has gone out the window with the 2 year temporary “work permit.” do not know if that is how they get around the immigration laws, but the companies are hiring for jobs that they claim to not be able to fill with Canadians. They will not offer a higher wage to compete for workers nor to attract them from other parts of the country, so they import them.

As a prime example, Canadian tire in Alberta has recently brought in 110 foreign workers. None have special skills nor special education, what they have is the ability to fill a position. Yes, 110 and they were from Mexico to stock shelves ect... I just googled it and do not care to spend much time, so here is a link about them importing 60 workers, but the news here later reported 110. CANADIAN TIRE Hires 60 Workers From Mexico « Elliot Lake News & Views If you could tell me what “special” skills these people posses aside from being available to fill a vacant position I would be interested to know.

In addition to that I know of one warehouse in town who did hire 60 foreign workers and had to house them. They bought up an apartment block in a city with a very low vacancy rate and EVICTED the tenants then charged their workers rent and are turning a profit on it leaving many families in the cold and looking for accommodation.

Here in Alberta they do not even need to speak English. The news just interviewed a fellow through an interpreter and he did not want to be shown out of fear his employer would fire him for speaking out about the poor working conditions he has to endure. If he is fired or quits he can't get another job here, he is sent back to his home country (he sounded Asian.)

As I stated before, it is of no benefit to Canadians (aside from big business) and it is a crock of crap for the workers who end up here as indentured slaves to one company. The system needs an overhaul. I hope that I do not sound bitter against immigrants or even those who are here working temporary; they are doing what is best for them and getting ahead. I do, however despise the government for allowing a work permit with very few guidelines, providing no protection for Canadians wages or jobs and not giving any protection to the worker. I am also bitter against companies who are doing this, paying them less and laying off Canadians first.

Oh, and I personally know a very nice couple who were engineers in the Baltic states who immigrated here and have been acting as a cleaning crew for the last 3 or 4 years because their credential are not recognized. Again, the system needs a complete overhaul.
 

highlander4life

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That's a different story. It's called cheap labor and although it's very unfortunate and horrible, it's the reality. Companies will do anything to save even a single buck (or loonie as we say in Canada). Importing cheap labor from third world countries or exporting the work to those countries, the importance is to save in labor costs. From big companies importing labor, to families assisting for example Philipinian nannies to immigrate, the key word is cost savings. And yes you are right, most of those people are treated like slaves (especially nannies), and they hardly have any rights at all, because they can't talk about it. If they do they will be sent home, and for some of them that job no matter how bad it is, it's the only way out.

With regards to whether the government should be doing something, I agree the government should be doing something. But, no matter what the government does, the companies and the immigrants will find ways to get around those laws and regulations. I think it's the people and the companies that should be educated, so that they can see what cheap labor does to the imbalance of economy and the impacts it has on the local and global economy.
 

dcwrestlefan

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The intent of the original question seems to have gotten lost in a few posts. Are foreigners taking your jobs. Yes and no is the answer.

People coming into the United States to pick lettuce are hardly a threat to the economy. Quite the contrary. Do you want to do it? I'm pretty thankful for it actually. Yes, a better mechanism needs to be in place where people who want to enter the country and work hard and do shit no one else wants to do can do it without all the hassle. And we need to prevent those who want to repeat 9/11 from "jumping the border".

These guys sweat and work their asses off all day for less than 20 percent of what I make. The fruits and vegetables I buy at the supermarket wouldn't be there were it not for them.

Shipping jobs overseas is another matter. The Clinton and Bush adminstrations seem to have a hardon for having things imported. We want other countries to make and build everything we own. Clothes, electronics, appliances, ENERGY of course, etc etc. I think this is wrong, and have seen the results first hand. Near my place in Baltimore, Bethlehem Steel (now owned by another company) is about gone. Western Electric IS gone. General Motors shut down. My sister and bro-in-law had to relocate 1000 miles away so he wouldn't lose his many years of service and retirement benefits, although who can say if they'll still be valid in 10 years. Not everyone even has this option. It's tough for a 50 year old guy or gal to go back to school to learn another trade just because the government thinks it's a good idea. Helping out China when our people lose is a bad idea. Their government is hardly a friendly one - it is repressive.
Their workers make a dollar an hour, and their environmental policies are harsh on mother nature.

The Dubai port ordeal really steamed me too. Is the US so incompetent that we can't do our own security for shipping? I don't think so.
 

madame_zora

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Clinton didn't create NAFTA, it was instituted by bush I, however, Clinton was a big proponent of free trade. Unfortunately, his vision was bastardized by corporate America and free trade came to mean US corporations were free to pillage third world economies. bush II continues to strong arm third world countries and the World Bank has devastated many countries through their "free trade at any cost" policy.

If the US weren't so interested in pillaging the third world, there would be a lot fewer economic refugees seeking access to the US.


*Warning- this is going to be an opportunity for me to suck Clinton's asshole. Please skip if that seems offensive*

One of the easiest and truest ways to view the quality of a prez is to notice what they're doing after leaving the Whitehouse. Clearly Clinton is and always was an idealist. Like him or not, it's hard to doubt that he believed what he was doing was good for the country, and the world at large. Turns out that the country and the world at large seemed to be in a state of relative ease, so he probably got a few things right.

Since leaving office, he's still out trying to save the world, even though he did let an intern suck his dick. Sure, he makes a good living doing what he does, and he gets paid very well for speaking engagements, but that can hardly be compared to Daddy bush's involvement with the Carlyle Group, and self-centered efforts at amassing personal wealth, like all his forefathers. Clinton actually went and tapped that man on the shoulder and asked for his help in his global efforts on AIDS, just so more people would take it serious. I wouldn't shake either of the bush's hands without a serious amount of disinfectant, so Clinton did something I have to admire, for a worthy cause.

[/ass-sucking]

Yes, a lot of manufacturing jobs have been outsourced, and bush did use the NAFTA to justify it, but he took a much broader view of its liberties, and we just have to live with that. Clinton saw it as an opportunity to bring more wealth to foreign lands, without slitting the throats of Americans, bush does not see our people as an important consideration. Haha @ the poor who voted for his greedy ass.

On the side of "big business" though, our own people have made themselves obsolete by demanding excessive wages for inferior work. $30/hr is NOT a "fair living wage" for a factory working making cars, and there's no reason for a car to cost $25k or more for a simple stripped-down model. We've priced ourselves out of the market because we bought into the idea that undereducated fatory workers deserved to make far above average livings doing things a trained monkey could do. Sorry, but there has to be a balance between wages and worth. I'm not talking about worth as a human being, but worth on the job market.

Doctors make more than waiters for a reason. When that value system is perverted, there is no possiblity of avoiding a collapse at some point. This was not only predictable, but necessary. If we are to survive, then North America will have to develop the higher tech fields, sciences, and jobs that require a better education, if people want to be better paid. We'll also need to look into college tuitions, which have been allowed to skyrocket FAR beyond the inflation rate, to the point that only the very wealthy can even consider formal education.

If we ever stopped shooting ourselves in the foot trying to apply political principles that have already been proven to fail, we might just have a chance. Sadly, I don't give either of our countries that much credit.
 

swordfishME

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I AM a foriegn worker. So fuck you... Korean person whose job I am taking. There are several hundred thousand of your friends currently living in and near my hometown of Centreville so I don't feel too bad about it. There aren't nearly that many Americans here.

I suspect that you are in education so it seems likely that you are not taking anyone's job.... Also, if you are in the education field that joke, I am afraid is on you. They will learn from you and better themselves so that you (making a generalization here) can be sitting in an unemployment line 10 years down the road.
 

Knockernail

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I think the question is wrong. No one takes the another one´s job. In any case, companies change one for another. We all are, or should be, free to go where ever we want or need to.

And i don´t either think that any country goes against its own population. If Australia, for example, gives some sort of advantages to chineses, it is probably because China is giving something in return. It makes no sense having the whole native population unnemployed while foreigners do work. No economy could stand that way.
 

D_Claude Hopper

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I have the luxury of not having a job that is well known, has much higher demand than the number of people qualified to do it, and that pretty much requires a European, American, Canadian, or Aussie education to be considered competent to begin with. Oh and experience is worth more than anything else in my field, which can't be had without the prior education in one of the forementioned places.

So in short, noone is taking my job anytime soon. And by the time their educational system is up to par, nobody will have the level of experience that those here do.

john