Are gay men often fatherless sons?

B_henry miller

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I didn't require anyone to justify anything. I asked a simple question. Some answered yes. Some answered no. Others, well, apparently misinterpreted what I had written.

I understand where sivertriumph is coming from, too. Maybe an anology can help... "Whi is the sky blue, daddy? 'because the sunlight shines through water in the air, and makes it blue.' but WHY?' because the water takes out the blue light, so you can see it" but WHY?"...etc. etc. People get tired of answering the same questions over and over and over again---to different people, sure--but it often still comes across, even if not meant, as requiring us to justify our existence, and it does get a bit old .
 

davidjh7

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I didn't require anyone to justify anything. I asked a simple question. Some answered yes. Some answered no. Others, well, apparently misinterpreted what I had written.

I know you didn't--what we are talking about is intent, and interpretation. You had no improper or negative intent, but because many people who ask similar questions DO have negative improper intent, the defenses come up immediately, and the "Oh God here we go again" gets triggered. It is unfair to you and those like you who just want honest, open, non judgemental discussion, but basically the bastards fucked it up for all of us, and now we ALL have to work through the bad perceptions to get through to the real honest dialog. Sucks, but if we all work at it, show consideration for each other, and thicken our skin a bit (that means both sides), then I think we can get to a better place.
 

B_henry miller

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And so it's no wonder why most people don't even want to talk about these issues at all.

The irony is that if society -- gays and straights -- would be more willing to talk about these things, homophobia would probably dissipate or at least be greatly diminished. A great deal of homophobia is the fear of the unknown. How do you get past fear of the unknown? Why, by asking questions....
 

davidjh7

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you are absolutely right. Ignorance and phobias are curable, but the people involved have to have open minds. You have an open mind. Many people don't. I guess the key is to be able to evaluate which people do and which ones don't, and invest the time and effort on those that have an open mind, and leave the ones who don't.
 

IntoxicatingToxin

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I, personally, don't know any gay men who were fatherless. My uncle had his father around until he passed away about 15 years ago (which would have made my uncle in his late 20's), and my uncle has claimed to have been gay his whole life. My brother has also reported having been gay since forever, and our parents were married until my brother was 12 or so. And my father was still in our lives after the divorce.
 

askmenow

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ahh ,no, i sleep with men because i love cock -not because i am or was fatherless. my son who i have raised since the age of 5 1/2 sleeps with women yet he had 2 dads and no mother.so i think that it doesnt matter who was in the family as long as they were loved and accepted
 

davidjh7

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Sexuality is complex. Here is what I have gleaned after years of trying to understand why I am gay. Like most other guys, I always knew I was different at some level, as far back as I can remember, even though I couldn;t put a name to it. I also knew, very early in life, without the terms being used, that what I felt was considered very wrong by society, and was something dirty to be ashamed of. That is why I was in denial for so long, and wasted so much time, effort, fear, emotion, and several suicide attempts trying to be something I am not. Nothing MADE me gay--and EVERYTHING MADE me gay. There is strong evidence that it is mainly biological---genetic, hormones in the womb, chemicals introduced to the mother during pregnancy, etc. But there are strong environmental factors involved, also---more in terms of how desired and successful suppression of the biological influence is. I will tell you I never met a truly gay man yet that was happy in forcing himself to be straight---successful hiding, yes. Happy, and satisfied, no. We all have our crosses and curses to bear, some more than others. As long as the large majority of people remain straight, there is no risk to society from gay people, period, because the only threat of homosexuality in any species, is that it becomes the dominant sexuality, and the species dies out from not reproducing. Mother nature hasn't let that happen yet, despite every species studied for homosexual behavior has exhibited it to a greater or lesser extent. Since there is no real threat, the only other reason for homophobia is ignorance, misinformation, or just plain bigotry. Those who CHOOSE to believe that gay people are evil spawns of Satan, who are cursed by God, and need to be destroyed, preferably violently and horribly, or who believe that they are not human, or members of society, and therefore not entitled to basic human rights, are bigots, period. I won't let them off the hook with something as sympathetic as a phobia. There are good gay people--there are bad ones--just like the rest of the human race. I will engage in any reasonable dialog, present whatever knowledge or evidence I can garner, with anyone who truly has an open mind, and is willing to entertain a new idea. If you insist on just sputing the same old rhetoric despite anything told you, any evidence presented, etc., don't waste either of our times.
 

Mem

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If this were true we would have a very large percentage of lower-class urban communities with gay men.
 

dalibor

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Although the idea that men become gay for lack of a father who is present to act as a model makes some logical sense, I don't think it's generally true. In fact I think human sexuality is determined by a complicated matrix of causes -- from genetic to environmental. We want easy answers, but I don't think we'll find any that fit all cases.
In my case, I was not with my father much in my first few years, simply because of his job that took him away a lot. But thereafter he was with me a lot and a very good role model. Who knows if those early years formed something in me that caused me to focus on men as sex objects? I've known gay men who were much closer to their fathers than to their mothers, although the reverse is more often true in my experience.
But the multiplicity of anecdotal evidence indicates to me that there are many potential causes for any sexual orientation.
 

Howard10011

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I believe that nature and nurture are BOTH at play in the gay equation.

Boys who grew up fatherless are definitely more likely to seek out strong paternal figures as they grow up. Some will find comfort in developing close male relationships, while others will seek to find it through sex with men. The original poster appears to fall into the former category, although a great many men may float between the two. This helps explain why some guys are deeply conflicted about their sexuality (your Larry Craigs come to mind) while others have no doubts at all about their innate desires.
 

Howard10011

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Also, a note to Novaboy and Silvertriumph: lighten up. The original poster asked a perfectly valid, reasonable question. Your defensiveness seems totally out of place for a message board devoted to an open exchange of ideas, questions and opinions.

It's nice that you think you have all the answers to the puzzles of human sexuality, but you don't. Your experiences aren't universal and they simply don't address everyone who's ever had a same-sex attraction.
 

LotlBotl

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I dont know if this was written down here already, but here is the Sigmund Freud theory:

When the son is ~5 years old, it loves his mother and hates his father. He wants to see his father dead to get his mother for him alone. But he sees the mother loves daddy more than him, so the kid imitates his father.
If there is no person that can play the father, or mommy loves the son more than daddy, then the goal is already reached and it doesnt imitate the father. So it could possibly never learn to love, or become homosexual.
 

bottombuddy

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I ask because sometimes I feel I can relate to a lot of gay men, though not in terms of sexuality. I don't want to have sex with another man. It recently occurred to me that maybe what I can relate to is that gay men are often, like me, fatherless sons.

I sometimes wonder if some gay men are searching to fulfill their lack of a father while growing up.

and do you wonder that lesbians become lesbian because mothers not around?

as a gay man i do not see the link and most families go through divorces,etc more often than not so theres alot of single fathers or single mothers bringing up kids.

each of us are unique and born gay ,bi sexual or straight or whatever permutation - its in the genes from the start and not a learned thing (in my experience anyway).......everyone develops differently - thank christ.

i do know alot of gay folk who were unfortunately sexually abused or mentally abused in some way while growing up.......there is never gonna be an answer to find ,as humans are way too complex for anyone to begin to fathom them out.
 

Novaboy

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Also, a note to Novaboy and Silvertriumph: lighten up. The original poster asked a perfectly valid, reasonable question. Your defensiveness seems totally out of place for a message board devoted to an open exchange of ideas, questions and opinions.

It's nice that you think you have all the answers to the puzzles of human sexuality, but you don't. Your experiences aren't universal and they simply don't address everyone who's ever had a same-sex attraction.

I really wasn't trying to be defensive. I was simply giving my opinion. I also pointed out the paradox of his question, that you can't wonder if many gay people lacked a father figure and not then look at the question from the other side and wonder if not having a father figure was somehow a factor in one's homosexuality. I think too, it's absense of the spoken voice in postings and emails that can make a written post seem negative or defensive when no such attitutude is intended. I also can't seem to get the smiley faces to work for me which sometimes can help to smooth over words that may come across as annoyed, cross, or defensive.

Novaboy
 

headbang8

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I never asked the "cause" of homosexuality. I asked if gay men are often fatherless sons. Emphasis on the word asked.
Here's my take on your question, Henry.

Gay men are not often fatherless sons, but they are more often fatherless sons than straight men might be.

Some shallow or insecure fathers reject gay sons in the same way they feel uncomfortable around any gay man. My father was one such man.

That said, the majority of fathers of gay sons act like any other straight person, male or female. They might or might not hold prejudices against gays, but when they actually meet one, things change. When you get to know a gay man as a human being, then his sexuality fades far into the background. This applies whether the gay man is your son or a casual acquaintance. His human qualities win you over, and that's what counts.
 

B_henry miller

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But then there is a connection between the fatherlessness of these males in the urban areas and their hyper masculinity. The poorer the man, usually the more hyper masculine he is. And usually the more hyper masculine, the more homophobic.

So, there are intersections here and there.

If this were true we would have a very large percentage of lower-class urban communities with gay men.
 

B_henry miller

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No, never wondered that. It's not an issue of consequence for me because I'm not female, am not likely to be accused of being lesbian, and do not feel it likely I will ever be hit on by a lesbian. If these situations ever arise in my life, perhaps then I'll ponder this question. Thanks. :cool:

and do you wonder that lesbians become lesbian because mothers not around?
 

invisibleman

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But then there is a connection between the fatherlessness of these males in the urban areas and their hyper masculinity. The poorer the man, usually the more hyper masculine he is. And usually the more hyper masculine, the more homophobic.

So, there are intersections here and there.

Homophobia is silly. Especially masculine gender roles and rites of passage.
Who is ever man enough anyway?