Are gay men often fatherless sons?

[Lex]

I think our definitions of open-minded may be different. Asking a question does not make someone open-minded, per sea. Open minded, to me, involves accepting that there are things that I may never understand and accepting that my understanding of those things should not be and is not requisite in my being able to accept them as possibilities and/or socially acceptable actualities.

As a friend jokes, "Straight people aren't normal, they're just common." :tongue:

Also--as someone who once thought he was straight (for over 30 years and has 2 kids and a marriage to speak for it)--I do not assume that all people are consciously aware of their true orientation at any given moment in time. I don't think you are lying, I was trying to reinforce for you why some people who have been here for a time MIGHT think your orientation may be something other than what you report or what you think it is.

I personally don't find issue with any type of man understanding me. I get along with and am accepted (and, in turn, do accept) straight, gay and bi men who understand that the direction in which your love points in irrelevant in as far as what makes you a man. I think that truly open-minded straight men (And I have many friends like this) understand and get me just fine.

 

[Juicee Jubes]

I really thnk it depends on the person - some extent the environment.

A great saying ive heard is " you are your environment" which does take some part in shaping the sub/& consious mind but ultimately how one evolves is purely dependant on the individual's life experiences.

Same patterns of thought maybe obvious with children growing up in similar conditions despite locality, while many others experience no change so to speak.

I had a very dominant father figure, grew up in a avg income family with stay @ home mum. Am not attracted to men who resemble my father but elements of emotions lacking as child does seem to surface.

X whos your daddy?

 

[B_henry miller]

I think our definitions of open-minded may be different. Asking a question does not make someone open-minded, per sea. Open minded, to me, involves accepting that there are things that I may never understand and accepting that my understanding of those things should not be and is not requisite in my being able to accept them as possibilities and/or socially acceptable actualities.

I recall hearing that the Pope told Stephen Hawkings not to look too close in to the creation of the universe, the Big Bang, etc., because that would be questioning God. I'm not saying you're the Pope, and I'm certainly not saying I'm Stephen Hawkings, but I am a bit surprised by your suggestion that I not ask questions.

If you ever want a definition of "open minded," it is likely the opposite of a person who suggests another person not look in to a given topic and just accept that they can't understand it.

For about the millionth time: I never said I don't accept gay or bisexual men.

I started another thread where I asked for gay men's view of straight men. Does this mean I don't accept straight men?

http://www.lpsg.org/72406-gay-men-s-view-straight.html

 

[Cynix]

can't confirm that... have grown up with a father and am gay, though...

 

[Lex]

I did not tell you to not ask questions and I did not tell you to not look into things. You connected those dots all on your own.

I implied that if you think you are open minded simply because you are inquisitive, that you may be wrong. I stated that being open-minded required more that just questions and since you do not always get answers, may also require accepting that there may not be answers to all questions.

What I find interesting is that, when people have offered you some explanations, you have, on more than one occasion, not accepted them.

Time will tell.

 

[B_henry miller]

I don't really have the capacity to accept or deny any answer. This is a public forum and I'm not a moderator and people can write whatever they want. And I don't recall contesting anyone's answers.

I never said I would accept gay and bisexual men only if I knew why they were gay and bisexual. I asked if gay men are often fatherless sons.

I did not tell you to not ask questions and I did not tell you to not look into things. You connected those dots all on your own.

I implied that if you think you are open minded simply because you are inquisitive, that you may be wrong. I stated that being open-minded required more that just questions and since you do not always get answers, may also require accepting that there may not be answers to all questions.

What I find interesting is that, when people have offered you some explanations, you have, on more than one occasion, not accepted them.

Time will tell.

 

[Cynix]

why are you interested in people you don't accept?

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

He's getting quite a roasting for merely being inquisitive and asking questions. I don't feel being fatherless would make anyone more inclined to be gay, although I'd bet there are surveys that show this (but you can prove anything in a survey by being a bit cunning with who you chose to survey). In every period of history there have been loads of boys who haven't had a father (loss through death in war, early death from disease) and it's only now that people have tried to make out that not having a father figure will make you gay. I think it's possible that having someone in your life who doesn't display traditional masculine traits might make you be more inclined to be gay, but the person displaying those traits doesn't have to be your father, the person doesn't even have to be male.

 

[B_henry miller]

I think I'm going to have to sign off from this thread because this is getting exhausting.

No wonder people rarely ask these questions. Asking these questions apparently opens a person to attack from every side and subjects them to misinterpretation and attack.

The great irony here is that if only people COULD ask these questions, society would grow greatly and homophobia would diminish greatly.

If anyone wants to talk to me further about these issues or this thread, feel free to message me privately. But I'm afraid I have to sign off from this thread now. This is going around in circles and I'm tired of repeating myself (and tired of being accused of nonsense).

why are you interested in people you don't accept?

 

[B_henry miller]

Thanks. I think that this topic has simply struck on some very deep and sore nerves for some people. And it's getting to a point of "doth they protest too much," making me think that this theory may have some validity or else they wouldn't contest it so greatly.

But, like I said, I have to sign off from this one because it's getting exhausting and quite irritating. But at the very least I have gotten some insight here: people remain stuck with these issues because they're afraid of these questions. Then again, this isn't that surprising. People who question are often viewed as a threat.

Thanks.

He's getting quite a roasting for merely being inquisitive and asking questions. I don't feel being fatherless would make anyone more inclined to be gay, although I'd bet there are surveys that show this (but you can prove anything in a survey by being a bit cunning with who you chose to survey). In every period of history there have been loads of boys who haven't had a father (loss through death in war, early death from disease) and it's only now that people have tried to make out that not having a father figure will make you gay. I think it's possible that having someone in your life who doesn't display traditional masculine traits might make you be more inclined to be gay, but the person displaying those traits doesn't have to be your father, the person doesn't even have to be male.

 

[Lex]

I love it when people run from debate. We can't really get anywhere if you only stick around long enough to hear answers that you want to hear or answers fashioned in the way you want to hear them.

If you are going to ask the question and/or post the topic, be prepared for any and all responses. It's why many here who have enhanced cocks/balls from saline and silicone don't mention it--they don't like the feedback they receive.

I am not upset with you and I am really trying to understand where you are coming from.

There are some obvious communication/social challenges here. How else does someone equate not accepting to mean/equal contesting an answer?

 

[Lex]

Thanks. I think that this topic has simply struck on some very deep and sore nerves for some people. And it's getting to a point of "doth they protest too much," making me think that this theory may have some validity or else they wouldn't contest it so greatly.
....

As I have said, time will tell (And is telling).

 

[Lex]

He's getting quite a roasting for merely being inquisitive and asking questions.

Believe that if you want. There is more here than meets the eye.

and it's only now that people have tried to make out that not having a father figure will make you gay.

This argument about absentee fathers is older than us both and often perpetuated by religious conservatives. Food for thought.

I think it's possible that having someone in your life who doesn't display traditional masculine traits might make you be more inclined to be gay, but the person displaying those traits doesn't have to be your father, the person doesn't even have to be male.

So now being gay means not being masculine? Wow.

And by traditional masculine traits, I assume you mean:

• Acting macho
• Repressing emotions
• Being insensitive to others

you know, the opposite of all the traits women say they really wish men could have.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

By traditional masculine roles I meant being strong, being supportive, acting responsibly.

 

[B_henry miller]

I love it when people run from debate. We can't really get anywhere if you only stick around long enough to hear answers that you want to hear or answers fashioned in the way you want to hear them.

Well, I made the mistake of peeking in here to see what was going on. I'm not running away from a debate because there is no debate here. This are groundless personal attacks against me.

No offense, dude, but you're a bit on the paranoid side with regard to this topic. You're inventing conspiracy theories about a simple discussion on a public forum. There is not more than meets the eye here. To paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld's response to Elaine's suggestion that there is more to Newman than meets the eye: "No, there's less."

Indeed, dude. There's less here than meets the eye. All there is, is you repeating yourself like a broken record and bitterly accusing me of saying things that I never said and taking positions I never took. Seek therapy, dude. Seek therapy.

 

[Lex]

By traditional masculine roles I meant being strong, being supportive, acting responsibly.

SP--this still presumes much that is highly inaccurate. How can you say that not having male role figures in your life will make you attracted to men? It also presumes (by default) that gay men are not masculine.


Also--I am always wary of someone who only posts in threads that they start.

 

[xemnasfury21]

Well my Dad was always at work while my mother majorly overparented, and still does. Dad never did anything like play sports with me or attempted to get me involved in it either.

That is what led to me being around girls at school as well, at least when my male friends would always play football at breaks

I always blame my sexual dysfunction on these facts, dont know if that fits your theory or not

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

I don't know Lex, as no one really knows it was only part of my personal opinion. I believe that genetically men are programmed to be certain things and that this programming is helped along by copying the men in their life, you can say we're talking about modern man but for countless millennia the role of men has been to provide and protect. I'm not sure why someone is gay but I do know there's no one reason, I don't think it's all down to having a gay gene, or not having a role model or having a certain type of mother. To be perfectly frank I think by far the best thing to do would not to theorise why people are gay but just to accept that not all people are the same and we'll never know why one person is gay and another isn't.

 

[ZOS23xy]

These ideas that people search for their fathers in other men if they are gay are stories. Everyone wants to have a quick and easy answer. There are no answers that explain everything.

I've known gay men and straight men with terrible fathers. I've know gay men and straight men with strong loving fathers. So what was going on with these families?

I never sought to allow others to make me happy. When I reached a point in my life where I didn't need other people to make me happy was the point that I was able to maintain a relationship. There was joy to be had, and I shared it and dwelt in it.

How come no one sez that lesbians have terrible weak mothers and strong fathers?

So what kind of perspective are you reaching for? What's the angle you're seeking?

We all have stories. We just need to be honest about them.