Are most Americans going to have to adjust to a lower quality of life?

[COMountainGuy]

The US uses more resources per head than any other country. That's a lot of scope to cut back on what you are using but still maintain the quality of life other countries enjoy. Americans appear to cherish their right to squander resources, and this seems to be at the heart of what will happen. Put those however million people in the army to work building infrastructure instead. Or running public hospitals. Or schools. Or anything more useful.

Or, since there seems to be no change to policy of letting the rich get as rich as they can, divisions in society will increase: some will see no change while others will see drastic cuts in quality of life.

You are preaching to the choir here. I love nature, I have no need to dominate her. I can't tell you how many times I have heard:
Your ATV is small
Your snowmobile engine is small
Your boat is small
Your Jeep motor is small
Your house is small
Your dick is nice and big....well it does seem to consume a lot of my resources

We have been very wasteful.......

 

[deleted15807]

We live in a finite world with finite resources. This uncontrolled experiment with mankind exhausting the planet's resources all will collapse. There is no stopping it.

Just look at the numbers:

Population Clock

Nothing short of collapse can stop it. Perhaps one day when we are gone a more worthy species will take our place.

 

[COMountainGuy]

We live in a finite world with finite resources. This uncontrolled experiment with mankind exhausting the planet's resources all will collapse. There is no stopping it.

Just look at the numbers:

Population Clock

Nothing short of collapse can stop it. Perhaps one day when we are gone a more worthy species will take our place.

http://www.zamaanonline.com/images/avatar_movie-posters-wallpapers.jpg

 

[deleted15807]

http://www.zamaanonline.com/images/avatar_movie-posters-wallpapers.jpg

The reality is though there will be no Hollywood ending here.

 

[crmonkey]

Here is what I see happening in the US, and many of which is currently beginning and underway.

Hyper inflation will hit the US, as the Fiat currency continues its failure and collapse. Germany post WW1 is what we will see, high unemployment, the Private bank Federal Reserve will continue its unchecked printing and poor monetary policy, and people will be bringing paychecks home in wheel barrels.

Now this is going to be the next step, Our government will continue to walk all over the people, and trample on our rights. The people poor and hungry (unlike now, happy, fat and stupid) will get pissed and a group will rise against the government, the government not knowing its real place will rise against the people and the heavy hand of government will come down, the nation will react. The military will defect in large numbers and the nation will be turned on its head.
Or
China will see the US struggling, and see its opportunity and will try to take it.

In the long run the US will go with less, since we will not be able to afford what we have now, after the changes who knows time will tell

 

[Rikter8]

Not to throw this discussion off track, but there have been rumors running around Michigan that all of the financial institutions that have been shored up by all these loans are going to go into default, and lead to a collapse of the banking industry Fall 2011. I am not sure if anyone else has heard this as well. So that quality of life change may come sooner than we think.

Wow, I am embarrassed it took someone from the UK to call out the real problems with the U.S. economy.

It's worse than that. The generation of kids today are consumers. They are not producers.
If the shit hits the fans, all of them will be grabbing for their ipods wanting to text their friends. They have no survival skills. Worse, nobody to teach them.

I'll never forget when we had the electrical blackout in the Detroit area of Michigan - it was mass hysteria. No power at all. No street lights.
No cell phone towers. No telecommunications either. All lines dead. Suprisingly people kept it together for the most part..but if it would have gone on for longer...people would have really gone nuts.

Many of them don't know what its like to cut back - I myself will have to make adjustments on my lifestyle.
For me, it will be trying to unload home debt in a failing market. The internet is my only entertainment, and I use a prepaid cell phone for emergency use only. One 200 minute card lasts me about 4 months. I don't go out and eat or party at the bars, but stick to home. I don't have cable, its too costly. Telephone is basic long distance.
I know I will have to cut car repairs/upgrades completely and switch to an eco-scooter.
So I'm not sure what else I can cut other than the home I live in (Which is not extravagant)
So, positively speaking, I wouldn't be loosing certain things, because I never had them to begin with.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Here is what I see happening in the US, and many of which is currently beginning and underway.

Hyper inflation will hit the US, as the Fiat currency continues its failure and collapse. Germany post WW1 is what we will see, high unemployment, the Private bank Federal Reserve will continue its unchecked printing and poor monetary policy, and people will be bringing paychecks home in wheel barrels.

Now this is going to be the next step, Our government will continue to walk all over the people, and trample on our rights. The people poor and hungry (unlike now, happy, fat and stupid) will get pissed and a group will rise against the government, the government not knowing its real place will rise against the people and the heavy hand of government will come down, the nation will react. The military will defect in large numbers and the nation will be turned on its head.
Or
China will see the US struggling, and see its opportunity and will try to take it.

In the long run the US will go with less, since we will not be able to afford what we have now, after the changes who knows time will tell

This might be the most off-base comment on this very off-base thread.

FIAT MONEY is just the ability of the Federal Reserve/Central Bank to reduce the value of the currency. Yes, to some this can sound very frightening. But the real way to think of this is that a reduction in the value of the currency means that debts are less onerous and that bonds and cash are less valuable. In other words, arguments against fiat money are an insidious way of maintaining a minimum-wage (actually minimum wealth) policy for the very rich. All the arguments against high minimum wages should employed against hard money arguments (hard money being the opposite of fiat money) but because we are protecting the value of wealth it is actually a more massive distortion of the economy than minimum wage.

I am more on the fence about your ramblings about the government. I think it is ignorant to say the government qua government is interested in seizing power. There have to be some interests driving things. Rather than pointing to a socialist society, the model of our government's recent policy shifts is toward one of the third-world society, where the government is employed to protect, come hell or high water, the wealth and spending power of a select few.

Something everyone should chew on: wealth should be widely variable as it is a claim on future earnings. On the planet I am familiar with, we are more uncertain of things the further out in the future they are. For the government to work to preserve the wealth of a few is very, very expensive. That expense is the strain many of you are feeling.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Not to throw this discussion off track, but there have been rumors running around Michigan that all of the financial institutions that have been shored up by all these loans are going to go into default, and lead to a collapse of the banking industry Fall 2011. I am not sure if anyone else has heard this as well. So that quality of life change may come sooner than we think.



It's worse than that. The generation of kids today are consumers. They are not producers.
If the shit hits the fans, all of them will be grabbing for their ipods wanting to text their friends. They have no survival skills. Worse, nobody to teach them.

I'll never forget when we had the electrical blackout in the Detroit area of Michigan - it was mass hysteria. No power at all. No street lights.
No cell phone towers. No telecommunications either. All lines dead. Suprisingly people kept it together for the most part..but if it would have gone on for longer...people would have really gone nuts.

Many of them don't know what its like to cut back - I myself will have to make adjustments on my lifestyle.
For me, it will be trying to unload home debt in a failing market. The internet is my only entertainment, and I use a prepaid cell phone for emergency use only. One 200 minute card lasts me about 4 months. I don't go out and eat or party at the bars, but stick to home. I don't have cable, its too costly. Telephone is basic long distance.
I know I will have to cut car repairs/upgrades completely and switch to an eco-scooter.
So I'm not sure what else I can cut other than the home I live in (Which is not extravagant)
So, positively speaking, I wouldn't be loosing certain things, because I never had them to begin with.

I think the banking is industry is bankrupt, at least in aggregate. So no arguments from me there. If you know the accounting, economics, finance, and legal concepts involved, you realize they should have mostly put into receivership in 2008 and the pain of readjustment front-loaded.

Your post highlights one reason that the necessary changes are difficult: the problems come as a result of complex system of arrangements and while those arrangements have failed us, we might not have any ideas of what else might work. Basically we have ended up in a cul-de-sac of ideas and we have to back our way out before we can find a path to sustained growth and prosperity.

 

[bananaclubcock]

Ok, one last post from me and then I need to go back to having better thinks to do than post on LPSG...

I am posting an article that touches on what some of the real issues are. EVERYONE should understand that these are political issues, not technical ones about the economy. Understand that in addition to many of you feeling squeezed, a small minority is actually getting richer. THERE IS NO GOOD ECONOMIC REASON FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. Without going into nauseating detail, under conventional Neo-Classical Economics, you get richer by making land, labor, and capital more productive, i.e. by improving technology. Getting rich by other means just means wealth is being transfered from party to another. Keep this in mind as you read this.

"Why The Rich are Getting Richer"

 

[eurotop40]

Here is what I see happening in the US, and many of which is currently beginning and underway.

Hyper inflation will hit the US, as the Fiat currency continues its failure and collapse. Germany post WW1 is what we will see, high unemployment, the Private bank Federal Reserve will continue its unchecked printing and poor monetary policy, and people will be bringing paychecks home in wheel barrels.

...

Germany suffered hyperinflation in the 20's after a desastrous war that lasted 4 years. The US has started two wars that seem to be lasting over 10 years. No surprise the USD is becoming printed paper.

 

[Drifterwood]

What you are seeing is quite simple and an effect caused by globalisation.

Wealth for most is being evened out globally. At the lower end, you have to compete with a global workforce, in the middle you have to fund your government, at the top you are clear to do as you like.

The simplest way to improve things in the middle and at the bottom end is to halve the cost of housing. Most in the West are mortgage slaves. You need to stop it.

Once you get past the slavery, you can double your money every three years if you are reasonably smart. I would say in the UK you need about $1.5 Mil cash and $5 Mil unencumbered assets to do this.

 

[midlifebear]

Ok, one last post from me and then I need to go back to having better thinks to do than post on LPSG...

I am posting an article that touches on what some of the real issues are. EVERYONE should understand that these are political issues, not technical ones about the economy. Understand that in addition to many of you feeling squeezed, a small minority is actually getting richer. THERE IS NO GOOD ECONOMIC REASON FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. Without going into nauseating detail, under conventional Neo-Classical Economics, you get richer by making land, labor, and capital more productive, i.e. by improving technology. Getting rich by other means just means wealth is being transfered from party to another. Keep this in mind as you read this.

"Why The Rich are Getting Richer"

Bananclubcock:

Excellent post. For once, someone has posted something with a link to some valid analysis. Sounds like Mssrs Hacker and Pierson are on to something. Also, thanks for linking to something other than the American Family Association for Guns, God, Against Homosexuals and Unborn Baby Gay Whales or World Net Daily.

Hacker and Pierson's account of when the US economy began to unravel pretty much matches my memory of those decades of history.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Here is what I see happening in the US, and many of which is currently beginning and underway.

Hyper inflation will hit the US, as the Fiat currency continues its failure and collapse. Germany post WW1 is what we will see, high unemployment, the Private bank Federal Reserve will continue its unchecked printing and poor monetary policy, and people will be bringing paychecks home in wheel barrels.

Now this is going to be the next step, Our government will continue to walk all over the people, and trample on our rights. The people poor and hungry (unlike now, happy, fat and stupid) will get pissed and a group will rise against the government, the government not knowing its real place will rise against the people and the heavy hand of government will come down, the nation will react. The military will defect in large numbers and the nation will be turned on its head.
Or
China will see the US struggling, and see its opportunity and will try to take it.

In the long run the US will go with less, since we will not be able to afford what we have now, after the changes who knows time will tell

Hyperinflation is not going to happen in the US. That's silly. Right now we're worried about deflation.

 

[deleted15807]

If they haven't already adjusted to it they might as well. Income inequality is rising throughout the world to unprecedented levels. Unless another revolution is in the wind and that doesn't appear likely it's time to downscale the house, the car, the clothes, the dreams.