Are things really this bad?

tbrguy

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"Almost everything about the American system is wrong. Grand juries are a rubber stamp for the prosecutors; assets are routinely frozen or seized in ex parte actions on the basis of false government affidavits, so targets don’t have the resources to pay avaricious American counsel and are thrust into the hands of public defenders, who are usually just Judas goats for the prosecutors. The prosecutors poison the jury pool with a media lynching at the start; bail is often outrageously high, and prosecutions and ancillary proceedings from the SEC, IRS, etc., drag on for a whole decade, all contrary to the Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments. The plea bargain system, for which prosecutors would be disbarred in most other serious countries, enables prosecutors to threaten everyone around the target with indictment if they don’t miraculously recall, under careful government coaching, inculpatory evidence. Prosecutors win 95 per cent of their cases, 90 per cent of those without a trial, and people who exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to go to trial receive more than three times the sentence they receive if they cop a plea, as a penalty for exercising their rights.
Federal sentences are about twice as long as state ones, on average, for the same offence, and probably about a third of prisoners are in illegally crowded and inhumanely spartan or even unsanitary conditions.
Evidentiary and procedural rules are a stacked deck: the prosecutors speak last to the jury; most trial judges are ex-prosecutors who stitch up appeals in the courthouse lunch rooms; and the Supreme Court only takes 70 cases a year, is ostentatiously unconcerned with the facts and equity of cases, and only interprets and applies the law to ensure it is constitutional and uniform across the country. The sole defence the average American has against this evil, repulsive, and terroristic system is that America does not have the means or personnel to imprison more than one per cent of its adult population at any one time, though a stupefying 48 million Americans have a record.
The civil courts are the bread and butter of the vast medieval legal guild. Over 70 per cent of American cases would be inadmissible in Canada or Britain as frivolous or vexatious litigation, and the routine American practice of marketing contingent fees is just a tawdry racket."

Discuss.
 

bigboy9239

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As someone who put people in jail...wayyy back when, I can say I agree with everything you've said. The problem is, we have too many lawyers, especially ones who just want to make a quick buck on their clients. To be continued......
 

tbrguy

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As someone who put people in jail...wayyy back when, I can say I agree with everything you've said. The problem is, we have too many lawyers, especially ones who just want to make a quick buck on their clients. To be continued......


Thanks, but I hope I have not misled anyone...

I italicised, and placed quotation marks around, the piece because it is something I found after hearing the author speaking on the BBC and I was interested in hearing others opinion.

I intend to disclose the name of the person who wrote this and a link to the source material when a debate has begun. I did not want to prejudice the views expressed by providing this at the outset.
 

AtomicMouse1950

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A poll was released either yesterday or today, that asked the question, "are you better off now than you were, 4 years ago?" And I don't have the poll in front of me, however the poll apparently indicated, that most people felt that they were better off, than 4 years ago.
 

njitalian02

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I agree with some points but not all.

1) I know several Public Defenders and they work very hard. They don't just go through the motions like it is insinuated. I think what is tougher now is the State has new, scientific resources to help with prosecution and so it's harder to defend someone where the evidence is overwhelming. I'm not saying this is true in every case but in many it is.

2) Question: How does the statistic about winning 95% of cases with 90% won without a trial make sense? Is this taking into account that a huge number of cases are set? I wouldn't necessarily characterize all pleas as "wins" since defendant get's a benefit from taking a plea

3) The point I most disagree with has to do with individuals going to trial and getting longer sentences. Is the way to solve this "problem" to allow the defendant to roll the dice and possibly get no conviction but if he does he gets the same as a plea?

I dont think this is a problem at all. Yes, they have the right to trial and they can exercise it, but that doesn't mean they have a constitutional right to the same sentence they were offered. First, many times you plead to one count and the rest are dismissed. Thus, you obviously would have a shorter sentence if you are guilty of one crime vs many (duh!) Second, the State cannot force you plea but they can say, "hey here are all are cards. The evidence, the lists, etc. Roll the dice and possibly be found not guilty. But you can be found guilty and then we go for what is allowed by law. OR take this plea and the sentnce is short". That is entire purpose of the plea system!!! It's illogical and inaccurate to paint turning down a plea and going to trial as only having a downside and being manipulative. Go to trial and possible win! Then no jail! Go to trial and lose and you get a longer sentence most likely b/c you have more convictions and the State can argue for statutory maximum.

4) Federal vs. State sentences--> I don't know how this is bad/good. Two different systems of justice. The Constitution doesn't require federal sentences to be equivalent to State. Would it be better to increase State sentences or decrease federal? I mean, Federal law is Supreme so if we are going to take this as a problem, we should just increase all State sentences

5) Prison overcrowding is a problem.

6) Civil courts are a waste b/c it's true so many are just filed to get a settlement even if the case has no merit.
 

Bardox

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It's rare, if at all possible, for you to find an american that would say any part of our system works or is fair.