Are we overdue another terrorist attack?

Oncamale28

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..probably, and probably will only get worse. Our current "leadership" apparently belives that repeatedly poking a stick in the beehive is the best way to "flush them out" ....
 

HotBulge

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Yes, with the current Bush administration, there is some "doomed" sense of anticipating a retaliatory terrorist attack. Bush provoked the anger of the Islamic world.

HOWEVER

Our destiny can be changed. The challenge that we face is not militaristic but one of propaganda. In Iraq, we need to take the slower, yet comprehensive measure of nation-building along with them. We should be encouraging the Iraqi citizens to point out "Al-Quaeda" agents so that the US military can flush them out. AT the same time, involve the Iraqis in the rebuilding of their cities and infrastructure. Also, ask other mid-East countries to volunteer to help; in the recontruction process... On the European side, Western European nations - the UK and France, in particular - need to engage their Muslim minorities more. The terrorism that the US adn the UK are experiencing is moreso an expression of cultural frustration of marginalized Muslims in the West; our military activities in the Mid-East are just a pre-text for marginalized Muslims in the West to rebel.
 

SpeedoGuy

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..probably, and probably will only get worse. Our current "leadership" apparently belives that repeatedly poking a stick in the beehive is the best way to "flush them out" ....

Exactly. And then our thoughtful and far sighted leaders will claim that we're fighting the angry bees near their nest so we don't have to fight them at home.
 

rich-9.8

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Looks like someone decided to call in our overdue attack:rolleyes:

At least we have inept suicide bombers north of the border - they didn't even manage to kill themselves! Also nice to know that I'm currently 10 minutes away from one of them, because he's at my local hospital.
 

D_Humper E Bogart

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I think one of the BIG differences between the US and Uk on this issue, is that the US seems to have terrorism as the #1 least wanted import.

While in the UK we've got more terrorists than Iraq has, sadly. Good on the people who nailed the fuckers though. Heck, wouldn't have minded joining a virtual lynch mob.
 

transformer_99

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Perhaps one before Bush leaves office ? That way the Republicans can tell us that for some reason, the Dems can't protect this nation in a lame attempt to win the Presidential election in their own form of political scare/terrorist tactics ?

I have a feeling just before Bush leaves office, Bin Laden will be resolved as well ?
 

D_Joseba_Guntertwat

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This is just a guess, but I'm guessing that the attacks (implemented and successful), attempted attacks (implemented but thwarted), and planned (but not yet implemented) attacks will continue in western countries, as long as those western countries are trying to occupy and rule the middle-eastern countries. If we leave 'em alone, maybe just maybe, they'll leave us alone.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
Although some Western foreign policy probably doesn't help the situation, it isn't the cause of the problem.
The problem is a bunch of retarded morons with their fucked-up superstitions. Don't try to rationalise it, because these people are not rational - anyone who tries to kill innocent people for the sake of their beliefs doesn't deserve any respect or attempt at rationalisation.
What we need to do is attack their beliefs directly, to show how completely moronic they are.
 

dong20

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Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
Although some Western foreign policy probably doesn't help the situation, it isn't the cause of the problem.
The problem is a bunch of retarded morons with their fucked-up superstitions. Don't try to rationalise it, because these people are not rational - anyone who tries to kill innocent people for the sake of their beliefs doesn't deserve any respect or attempt at rationalisation.
What we need to do is attack their beliefs directly, to show how completely moronic they are.

Yes, that's going to work, tell irrational people they're moronic.:rolleyes:
 

dong20

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Aha, you spotted the flaw in my argument! Damn!
Well what do you suggest?

:biggrin1: If I had the answer.....

Ultimately, in terms of Christianity vs Islam; short of one side totally eliminating (or converting) the other - and in fairness over the last 1500 or so years that's certainly been attempted by both sides without success, that seems unlikely.

Failing that, tolerance, on all sides would seem to offer the only long term solution. How that's acheived is of course the $64 question.
 

D_Joseba_Guntertwat

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:biggrin1: If I had the answer.....

Ultimately, in terms of Christianity vs Islam; short of one side totally eliminating (or converting) the other - and in fairness over the last 1500 or so years that's certainly been attempted by both sides without success, that seems unlikely.

Failing that, tolerance, on all sides would seem to offer the only long term solution. How that's acheived is of course the $64 question.

Whoa! Who mentioned Christianity vs Islam?
I was talking about the stupid ideas of a death cult who want to wipe out everyone who disagrees with them.
 

dong20

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Whoa! Who mentioned Christianity vs Islam?
I was talking about the stupid ideas of a death cult who want to wipe out everyone who disagrees with them.

Yes, sorry, I was momentarily back in another thread. :redface:

In the context of this thread what I meant was 'western culture' which to be fair is broadly Christian. I don't think it's as entirely simple as they want to destroy us because we disagree with them, after all, hardly anyone agrees with them.

Either way though, the basic problem still stands, they eliminate us, or we eliminate them. Given our attempts so far all we're seemingly able to do is make them more irrational and militant so that strategy seems flawed.

In the end Humans need to grow up in order to achieve solutions to our problems. If we're unable, or unwilling to do that then the result will likely be unpleasant, for all of us.
 

D_Joseba_Guntertwat

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Yes, sorry, I was momentarily back in another thread. :redface:

In the context of this thread what I meant was 'western culture' which to be fair is broadly Christian. I don't think it's as entirely simple as they want to destroy us because we disagree with them, after all, hardly anyone agrees with them.

Either way though, the basic problem still stands, they eliminate us, or we eliminate them. Given our attempts so far all we're seemingly able to do is make them more irrational and militant so that strategy seems flawed.

In the end Humans need to grow up in order to achieve solutions to our problems. If we're unable, or unwilling to do that then the result will likely be unpleasant, for all of us.

I'm not so sure. I think that anyone would recognise that suicide bombing is complete unacceptable and treat it as the disgusting crime that it is.
I think what I'm trying to get at is people who try to excuse it or explain it by saying Western foreign policy is to blame. Not that I think Western foreign policy is perfect, but I think this is a not the main cause, and it is a distraction from the main issue, which is that this death cult should be stopped by attacking its ideology directly, not through appeasement.
 

dong20

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I'm not so sure. I think that anyone would recognise that suicide bombing is complete unacceptable and treat it as the disgusting crime that it is.
I think what I'm trying to get at is people who try to excuse it or explain it by saying Western foreign policy is to blame. Not that I think Western foreign policy is perfect, but I think this is a not the main cause, and it is a distraction from the main issue, which is that this death cult should be stopped by attacking its ideology directly, not through appeasement.

Where did I say it was acceptable, or is it because I didn't explicity say it was unnacceptable you assume I thought otherwise? If I did think that, do you seriously think I would bother to debate the issue here?:rolleyes:

Well, I didn't say that Western foreign policy was the cause. While I do think it's a major factor, I don't believe it's the only cause by any means. Whatever people's views on the horror of indiscriminate violence the current strategy of 'tit for tat' violence is unlikely to end in a permanent solution any time soon. The last 50 years should tell us that.

But, the strategy of attacking the ideology is already being followed - isn't that obvious? The other obvious thing should be that this strategy isn't, based on the evidence, achieving much beyond causing the sort of incidents that lead to this thread.

To change that cycle of causality it would appear a new strategy is needed. That strategy may necessitate doing things deemed unnacceptable to many on both sides. Northern Ireland is a good example. I'm not sure either, but I can't help but think that risking that is preferable to more decades of such atrocities.

The only way to end trench warfare is to abandon the trenches.
 

D_Joseba_Guntertwat

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Where did I say it was acceptable, or is it because I didn't explicity say it was unnacceptable you assume I thought otherwise? If I did think that, do you seriously think I would bother to debate the issue here?:rolleyes:

Well, I didn't say that Western foreign policy was the cause. While I do think it's a major factor, I don't believe it's the only cause by any means. Whatever people's views on the horror of indiscriminate violence the current strategy of 'tit for tat' violence is unlikely to end in a permanent solution any time soon. The last 50 years should tell us that.

But, the strategy of attacking the ideology is already being followed - isn't that obvious? The other obvious thing should be that this strategy isn't, based on the evidence, achieving much beyond causing the sort of incidents that lead to this thread.

To change that cycle of causality it would appear a new strategy is needed. That strategy may necessitate doing things deemed unnacceptable to many on both sides. I'm not sure either, but I can't help but think that risking that is preferable to more decades of such atrocities.

The only way to end trench warfare is to abandon the trenches.

You didn't say it was acceptable, but a previous poster said "If we leave 'em alone, maybe just maybe, they'll leave us alone." which I believe is the wrong attitude.

Actually I agree with most of what you say. A couple of points I'd make are:
(A) the ideology is not being attacked strongly, at least it is not obvious to someone like me in the UK. Of course whenever there is an attack the government attacks it, but how are these ideologies being spread in the first place?
(B) You say Western foreign policy is a major factor. Well who defines major? And do you believe that if the West disengaged completely in the Middle East there would be peace? Also how does Israel fit into that?
Ok that's a lot of questions, but I think that current Western foreign policy is certainly not the main cause of the problem (historical Western policy is a different matter entirely but that is not within anyone's control any more).
 

dong20

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You didn't say it was acceptable, but a previous poster said "If we leave 'em alone, maybe just maybe, they'll leave us alone." which I believe is the wrong attitude.

OK, as you cited my comments when saying so I inferred what you said was directed at me.

Actually I agree with most of what you say. A couple of points I'd make are:
(A) the ideology is not being attacked strongly, at least it is not obvious to someone like me in the UK. Of course whenever there is an attack the government attacks it, but how are these ideologies being spread in the first place?

How did you find out about them....?

(B) You say Western foreign policy is a major factor. Well who defines major? And do you believe that if the West disengaged completely in the Middle East there would be peace? Also how does Israel fit into that?

See below for the first.

No, I don't though I believe it may help. Israel has big boots, one could argue that maybe it's time to see if it can fill them? Of course it's hard to be sure how much restraint the US truly enforces on Israel's behaviour and were it to adopt such a 'hands off' strategy what the result would be. I suspect it may leap one way or another rather than carry on as it is now as that clearly isn't working either.

Never mind what the response of Iran et al may be to an truly independent Israel. Personally, I think Iran may be more hot air than real intent but naturally it's hard to be sure of that.

The likelihood of any of this happening any time soon is negligible of course, so the cycle continues. Historical extremism and hatred and ignorance on all sides lies at the root of many of these issues, contemporary western foreign policy now largely just fans the flames it ignited decades ago.

Ok that's a lot of questions, but I think that current Western foreign policy is certainly not the main cause of the problem (historical Western policy is a different matter entirely but that is not within anyone's control any more).

Well, as you say it's a factor but not the main one, so you clearly have an idea how much of one it is, so who defined how much of one it was for you?
 

D_Joseba_Guntertwat

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OK, as you cited my comments when saying so I inferred what you said was directed at me.

How did you find out about them....?

See below for the first.

No, I don't though I believe it may help. Israel has big boots, one could argue that maybe it's time to see if it can fill them? Of course it's hard to be sure how much restraint the US truly enforces on Israel's behaviour and were it to adopt such a 'hands off' strategy what the result would be. I suspect it may leap one way or another rather than carry on as it is now as that clearly isn't working either.

Never mind what the response of Iran et al may be to an truly independent Israel. Personally, I think Iran may be more hot air than real intent but naturally it's hard to be sure of that.

The likelihood of any of this happening any time soon is negligible of course, so the cycle continues. Historical extremism and hatred and ignorance on all sides lies at the root of many of these issues, contemporary western foreign policy now largely just fans the flames it ignited decades ago.

Well, as you say it's a factor but not the main one, so you clearly have an idea how much of one it is, so who defined how much of one it was for you?

Firstly, I have to go to bed now - it's very late here - so won't be responding for a while. Thanks for the intelligent responses though.

Personally, the only thing I've about the death cult ideology is through the media, but it seems that most extremists hear about it directly through their friends / colleagues / fellow morons, where they are brainwashed in the usual religious way.

I think it is probably true that without the Iraq invasion there would be less of a terrorist threat but it certainly wouldn't disappear.

Main factors - well the main factor must when the moron decides that he believes he is going to go to heaven for killing innocent people. I think this is the sort of thing that should be being attacked most of all - that murder can never be justified, and that heaven doesn't exist.