Are you for or against the death penalty ?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by validi, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. validi

    validi Member

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    And before you say that you're against it , consider this:

    1 - if a member of your family gets raped , tortured or killed , would still be against it ? (or are you against it only when it concerns the family of others ? )..

    2 - Pedophiles. Should be shot on sight. Would you give them a second chance ? As far as i'm concerned , whats done is done , if you ruin a child's life , you don't rot in jail...death penalty.

    Prison should only be filled with small time criminals , unimportant crimes...(no serial killers , no murderers)...car thiefs ? ...but anyone who kills or tortures , rapes another individual deserves death.

    With a few exceptions of course. If your life is in danger. If it's legitimate defense , ( to save your ass or your family ) then no death penaty or prison.

    Not to mention we're paying for these fuckers. And to those who argue that putting someone on death penalty actually costs more than life in prison (because of endless appeals & procedures)...I say , we do it the chinese way. Than no more worries , & families who want to reclaim the body are charged for the bullet.

    When you have scientific empirical proofs and you're 100% certain of a criminal's guilt...no need for endless appeals.


    That's justice !

    YouTube - Father of Kidnapped Son gets Revenge
     
  2. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

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    So you're not really asking a question you just want to tell people what to think.


    In any event. I oppose judicial murder just as much as I oppose all other forms of murder.
     
  3. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I read all of your"Before you say you're against":

    I oppose the Death Penalty.
     
  4. rob_just_rob

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    Wrongful or incorrect convictions happen. And decisions made about a person's life should be made dispassionately.

    Pedophilia isn't illegal. Child molestation is illegal. Child pornography is illegal (production and possession, in most places).

    You're confusing an inclination with an action. Making pedophilia a capital crime would be like executing someone for fantasizing about killing someone they don't like.

    When you talk in absolutes and then immediately start adding qualifications, it makes me wonder whether you've thought your argument through.


    So, let me get this straight, you want to model your legal system on China's system? As in China, the police state with the horrifying human rights record?

    Unfortunately it is almost never so simple - 100% certainty doesn't come around a lot.

    Look, there are plenty of mass murderers/torturers who I like the idea of executing. But it's a slippery slope. You start by executing multiple murderers, then extend that to premeditated murderers, cop-killers, etc... and before you know it, the list of capital crimes is a page long.

    There are a lot of social/cultural issues around capital punishment, not the least of which is that US death rows are overwhelmingly filled with poor people and minorities. Those issues badly need to be addressed before there can be any discussion about expanding the death penalty.
     
    #4 rob_just_rob, Jan 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  5. exwhyzee

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    I'm against the death penalty on the grounds that:

    a) Too many people on death row have been exonerated due to scientific advances or new evidence that was not available at the time of the trial.

    b) the death penalty cheapens life. If the government can justify killing someone...then death becomes morally justifiable to some.

    c) The capital punishment club is not a very cool club to be a member of...China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Vietnam, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Bangladesh, and Thailand.

    d) I don't think folks should live a life of luxury in prison. They should do something to pay back society. Make them do something that no one else wants to do...like sort through garbage for recycling. They should not be sitting around watching Oprah.

    e) States that have abolished capital punishment show no significant changes in either crime or murder rates...so why have it? Vengeance?
     
  6. SilverTrain

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  7. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    I'm all for it - as soon as they figure out a way to be 100% sure you've got the right person.
     
  8. luka82

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    It`s murder. We are no better than them then.
     
  9. rbkwp

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    Agree on absolutely provren case,s.
    (with NO right to appeal)
    otherwise similar actions should be taken depending on the circumstances
    fr eg
    if a person/s hangs a child on a clothes line,and spins it around (true event)
    then that person should be publicly subjected to similar, for a lengthy period of time preferably.
    (length of time to be by community concensus, thus reflecting peoples emotions Not just a Judge,s who rules by restraints)
    enz

    would you lock up .......?.
    fr eg,
    whom you saw, cut the hands & feet off a person..and left them lying there

    I ALWAYS Laff at the moaners who cry 'we are paying to keep these criminals inside'
    well fckn Tuff Shit, thats our society how we have evolved & the laws we have created, live with it.
    (corporates are still going to make there $ .. suffer the poor)
    yeah yeah controversial but wtf'

    Not to mention we're paying for these fuckers. And to those who argue that putting someone on death penalty actually costs more than life in prison (because of endless appeals & procedures).
     
  10. petite

    petite New Member

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    Against. I also read your entire OP.

    When thousands of imprisoned men were released after DNA testing revealed they were innocent, it proved that our system of convicting criminals is too often wrong. You cannot release a wrongly convicted man if you have already put him to death.
     
  11. HiddenLacey

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  12. CUBE

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    Totally for it.
     
  13. Lazerbeam

    Lazerbeam New Member

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    I think the death penalty is too good for them. Making them live in sufferance would be a more fitting punishment.

    Being killed humanely by lethal injection is an easy way out for some. Indeed, many terminally ill innocent people would love that option.

    I certainly don't think anybody should face the death penalty unless their guilt is beyond question though.
     
  14. DiscoBoy

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    Against.

    However, I think ideally, giving those with life-sentences a choice between serving that sentence and the death penalty would be best. Neither is really ethical (necessary evils, obviously), but at least give 'em a choice. Euthanasia of sorts.
     
  15. Calboner

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    Perhaps a rational case can be made for the institution of the death penalty, but you have not made one, Validi. Vindictive sentiments are no basis for a system of justice. On the contrary, we have and we need a system of justice precisely because our sentiments are so variable, so manipulable, and so dangerous if put into action. They are all that you have appealed to here. For example:
    I hesitate to call this an "argument," but I will try to treat it as one. Let us say that person A murders a member of the family of person B and that B consequently wants A killed. You offer this as a reason why B should be put to death. This is either insane or simply infantile. If the mere vengeful sentiments of people were a consideration supporting the death penalty, then it would be just as logical that people who are extremely unpopular and widely hated should be put to death to placate those who hate them. The pertinent question is by what procedure it is to be determined that some act merits the penalty of death. You seem never even to have thought of this question. At the end of your message you invoke the term "justice," yet what you propose is the opposite of justice: what you propose is to kill people purely because other people want them killed.

    And how is this supposed to be adopted into judicial procedure? There are not two kinds of "guilty" verdict, one in which defendants are found guilty with some residue of doubt and another in which they are found guilty with 100% certainty. Defendants must be found either guilty (beyond reasonable doubt) or not guilty; it would be nonsense to punish them as offenders if one is not satisfied that they have been proved guilty.

    Certainly there may be a difference between what conclusions can be established by someone looking into a criminal case from outside the judicial process and what can be established within that process. For instance, there may be evidence that establishes beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime, but that was obtained by illegal means. Such evidence is not admissible in court, and for good reason: if it were, it would give police license to circumvent the law to incriminate people (not necessarily people of crimes). So the defendant may be found not guilty.

    I suspect that you have no patience with such facts, because you prefer to wallow in your crude and childish sentiments of self-righteousness. You cannot see, or will not look, beyond the immediate case to consider the consequences of the vindictive actions that you hunger for. You have no conception of the criminal process as a social institution. You fancy that your indignation is an oracle of justice. It isn't, and to think so is childish.
     
  16. Not_Punny

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    What he said. ^^

    I will add two more bullet points to the list:

    f) It makes celebrities out of the people on death row.

    g) The appeals process, escalated by the urgency of an impending execution date, is very costly to the state. (Regrettably, I live in a pro-execution state, and I see this happen all the time.)
     
  17. xxnineinchxx

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    Murder is never justice, even in front of the overwhelming evidence.

    Thank God i'm Italian and our Constitution prohibits death penalty.

    I'm with exwhyzee and submissivegirl83 when they say that prisoners should pay back but (as i know from my experience as a lawyer) changing the whole prison system would cost much more than the benefits for the society.
     
  18. hypoc8

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    For it.
     
  19. Domisoldo

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    Indeed, we are the only "advanced" nation still allowing this less-than-advanced practice.

    Worse yet our jury system is fraught with deficiencies (with jurors of the OP sort polluting the justice system in many parts of the country), so the death penalty is not administered evenly.

    I've been fighting with my own demons over a "fair" retribution for odious crimes appropriate for an advanced society.

    One dies only once: how do you match the cold, brutal rape and murder of 20 children with the 1 death by euthanasia of the perpetrator? You just don't. There is no eye-for-an-eye retribution possible.

    The only imperfect solution I've ever come up with was giving the convict the choice between a lifetime of solitary confinement or serving as test subject for risky, high-stake medical treatments susceptible to save lives (in exchange for somewhat better accommodations).





     
    #19 Domisoldo, Jan 23, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  20. august86

    august86 Member

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    What an interesting thread, and great feedback as well.
    This debate extends so far back, and I doubt there will ever be consensus thereon...

    There's a reason why the law is independent of emotion and religious beliefs, because it is there to promote a society that is ideally fair, and as harmonious as humanly possible.

    That being said, I can certainly understand a victim's need for justice in the form of vengeance, and I won't presume to tell someone that was raped, beaten, and left to die, that the death penalty is too harsh a punishment... but I wont base my argument on it.

    My opinion of the prison system is that it’s an idealistic “time-out” system in a world full of spoilt, drug-induced, psychological “teenagers” (a whole other story.)
    I shall not get into logistical trivia regarding criminal procedure, as I wouldn’t want to bore anyone with anymore rhetoric from my law lectures.

    All I have to say is that I am for the death penalty, purely on the basis that certain criminal acts are so heinous that they deserve fitting punishment. I think we, as society, reach a certain state, of denial or whatever you’d like to call it, where we see the world as this lovely place where everything runs smoothly and crime is a bad dream. I long for that day, but unfortunately, it hasn’t arrived yet, so we should face facts: There are bad people out there who don’t deserve to be on earth with the sole purpose of making other people’s lives unbearable.
    Don’t get me wrong, though, I don’t see the death penalty as a “tit for tat”, nor am I advocating summary imposition of the death penalty, but until we foster a society where this is not the case, what else, realistically, is there to do with the “worst of the worst”?
     
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