Are you proud of using the Euro?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_dodgily111, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. B_dodgily111

    B_dodgily111 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Are you or aren't you if you are one of Europeans? We still don't have the Euro in Czech republic but I would want to have it
     
  2. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,932
    Likes Received:
    641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    To me money is primarily a tool, and only a source of pride somewhere way down the list and not all that important.

    But as a Brit I do get a small degree of satisfaction at using sterling, a currency in continuous use for well over a thousand years and part of the history of the British Isles. It is a part of British heritage.

    I'm also aware of the economic reality that a currency needs a fiscal union to work, and that is usually more or less the same as a sovereign state. Pride in the Euro has to sit alongside pride in the EU - I don't see how you can like one without the other. 20 years ago I was a great enthusiast for the EU (and ready to like the euro when it came). Now I find the EU a terrifying political construct which is damaging the lives of many of the half billion Europeans who live in the EU. Vaclav Klaus is a colourful figure who speaks a lot of sense about the democratic deficit in Europe and the dangers of the EU. Maybe Czechs should pay more attention to what he says.

    I'm very pleased the euro is not my nation's currency. The political construct that the euro supports is in my view a great cause for concern because of the hurt it is causing to people. Look at the riots in Greece. Look at the shocking settlement forced on the people of Ireland. Look at Portugal on the brink. If the euro was my nation's currency I would be ashamed of it, deeply ashamed by an immoral taint. I suggest the Czech Republic should rejoice that it has the korona and with it national respect.
     
  3. Joll

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    14,517
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    723
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wales (GB)
    ^ What he said.
     
  4. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    I'm totally unclear on the concept of pride in the form of the currency one uses. When I travel to Canada, I use Canadian dollars without feeling diminished in any way whatsoever. I lived in France before the Euro and needed about three day's adjustment before I understood the value of a franc with complete comfort; pesetas were simpler because one peseta usually equaled a penny. That made for some oddly high-sounding prices (much like lira) but otherwise left me devoid of anything similar to pride or its reverse, guilt/shame.

    It's also worth noting that the OP was banned less than an hour after he started this thread.
     
  5. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,932
    Likes Received:
    641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    I hadn't spotted that.
     
  6. COMountainGuy

    COMountainGuy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Apparently a mod harbors strong feelings about the euro.
     
  7. nudeyorker

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    42,918
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC/Honolulu
    In this case one thing had nothing to do with the other. But to answer the question... I frankly have never thought about it. To me money is money and I've never attached any sentiment to it... it all spends the same to me.
     
  8. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,932
    Likes Received:
    641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    Presumably you feel that Canada is a respectable nation in the community of nations and are happy to visit and enjoy the Canadian experience which includes the loony on the currency. Great! There is no reason for you to feel diminished.

    If I visit a country I don't approve of I accept their currency as a necessary tool - and no more. In the end it is not my currency and not my moral baggage, so I don't feel diminished even here. The problem would be if the currency of a "country" I think is wrong were forced on me. This is the problem with the euro. People across the EU have had it forced on them - there hasn't been a great deal of enthusiasm about its adoption anywhere much outside Belgium. In the UK the risk of this disaster has receded and I hope will necer happen. But if it happened personally I would be ashamed of the euro as my currency - ashamed because I regard the EU as shameful.

    I do some work for a Swiss company. Their default currency of payment is Swiss Francs and I have accepted this - but it would be easy to change this and take payment from them in euro (possibly even a fraction cheaper on exchange). I'm not doing this. I want to keep as much distance as possible from the EU and from a tainted currency.
     
  9. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,932
    Likes Received:
    641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    The US dollar is not being defended by grinding into poverty a couple of generations of the citizens of a state (as Greece). It is not creating a circumstance where 1/3rd of the 18-25 year olds believe they will emigrate within a year (Ireland). It is not causing 42% youth (18-25) unemployment (Spain). It has not been created with the recently-publicised objective of creating an economic crisis (a "beneficial crisis") in order to bring about a forced union. It is not a construct designed to bring about a political ideology of socialism which could not win through the ballot box. You are fortunate to have a currency where you don't have to think about these things, where money is simply money to be spent without sentiment.

    Europe is walking blindfold into a moral abyss where people actually think there is some argument that justifies the indefensible in Greece and Ireland and Spain. The banned OP said he was Czech, ie from a country that has kicked into the long grass their possible membership of the euro. In this the Czechs are surely morally right, as is the UK and Sweden.
     
  10. nudeyorker

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    42,918
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC/Honolulu
    Thank you for the economic lesson I guess I should start watching the news I suppose they are talking about this.
    I thought the question was am I proud of using the Euro? I'm no more proud of using it than I am the dollar or the yen.
    BTW I am European.
     
  11. Bbucko

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,413
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sunny SoFla
    I had a Venezuelan lover for about five years in the 80s and went there several times (long before Chavez). The security we had in Caracas was tremendous, both inside his parent's fortress-like house and when we'd go outside for shopping or nightlife. I was acutely aware of the grinding poverty all around me and of how inordinately privileged a life his family lived (as did I when I'd visit). And Venezuela had one of the better distributions of wealth relative to other Latin American countries at that time.

    But it was never a question of "approving" of their country, even though, at that time, men weren't allowed to dance together in gay dance clubs. I was relieved that I didn't grow up amid such struggle, but never felt anything but an even greater understanding of why my partner felt forced to leave his birthplace. I honestly would never feel that I had any real right to judge what were obviously prevailing community standards, except to be grateful that the standards of my home place were more accepting. Besides, my "approval" would have been completely meaningless to anyone except my hosts, who'd have taken offense, and their hospitality was lavish and heart-felt.

    I think you fell for troll bait from the OP, Jason. NudeYorker and I feel precisely the same way on this matter, as do you and Joll (though on opposite sides of the fence). The OP was obviously looking to explore fault-lines within the membership and it looks as though he succeeded.
     
  12. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    I'm rather fond of the Euro. Each country participating in the Eurozone currency has coins and bills that celebrate something about each country on one side and appear unified and the same of the other -- at least up until 2008 when exceptions were allowed. I'm especially fond of the Irish Euro coins which have the Irish Harp on one side. I enjoy handing out newly 10c Irish coins to friends in the US, Argentina, and Canada. They are coated in a brilliant gold-colored coating and it's sort of like having a bit of gold from some pot at the end of the rainbow.

    My only complaint are the €1 and €2 coins which despite being dimensionally different sizes are difficult to differentiate when digging in my pockets or in dim light at a restaurant or bar.

    As for regarding the EU as shameful and/or immoral -- well, that's one person's individual opinion. Spaniards certainly find using the Euro much easier than packing around multi-thousand Peseta notes and coins. Whenever I fly to Santiago, Chile, I suffer the multi-thousand Peso shock. You go to an ATM and discover you can only take out 5,000 to 200,000 Pesos? That is truly difficult to get used to. Plus "tres mil nueveciento cinquenta y veinte dos is a bit off putting. The veinte dos refers to centavos, but when rapidly told that is the price of something in a noisy restaurant, well . . . it just takes a while to decipher.

    Unlike Jason, who has many valid points against the Euro, I find it a great currency for traveling among Eurozone countries and not getting nicked because you don't have to use a currency exchange kiosk. Makes great sense to me.

    And despite the many Brits crying that the sky is falling all over Spain and that we're in for a world of hurt, that's not exactly true. Unemployment has NEVER been close to 42%. It has, however, remained at about 24% for long periods. But it's lowering. The State of Nevada has more to worry about with a 14% to 15% State-wide unemployment rate that has no prospects of getting better. In Spain, the 24% is now more like 20%, although Zapatero warned everyone in 2009 to gird our loins and expect the worst, which could go as high as 24%. And it has been, but only in certain sectors of the economy, not the entire Spanish economy. Spain is doing rather well despite high unemployment. And, as Zapatero announced several months ago, Spain is still a solid country that attracts quite a bit of foreign investment.

    I remember how long it took to convince citizens of the USA that the unified green color of all the different bills was not sacred. Now, of course, it looks as though it's all printed by the LGBT Rainbow Coalition. But two things have seriously hampered international commerce for the little guy working from the USA. In the 1960s and 1970s they quit printing $500 and $1,000 dollar bills. And, of course, the real devaluation in the US Dollar occurred when the government could no longer back it with silver. Of course, the Treasury lost the ability to back the Buck with gold back during the Hoover Administration (a lovely Republican President reviled by the majority of the country's citizens). In 1964 or 1965 half dollars, quarter, and dimes became sandwiched with silver alloy on the outside with a creamy copper filling on the inside. At the time the propaganda was that other countries were taking all of the silver change out of the USA and melting it down for it's material value. Actually, silver was still so cheap at the time that this popular excuse was just bullshit. It was just the first time the Treasury had purposefully -- and permanently -- devalued the Dollar -- partially to prop it up and pay for Viet Nam. Currently, new Pennies are simply copper flash-coated aluminum. Sort of takes the wind ouf the sails of the value of the saying, "A Penny saved is a Penny earned."

    Sorry that the OP was a poseur. But it's a good topic.

    EDIT: Just an after thought, but my favorite money is a 10 Peso Mexican coin. It's heavy, made of mostly brass and nickel and when you drop it on the counter of a bar it has this wonderful, subtantial ring to it. And it's still almost worth US $1 depending upon how well the Dollar is doing..
     
    #12 midlifebear, Dec 27, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
  13. B_nyvin

    B_nyvin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pensacola FL
    Pennies are made of zinc. You could bend aluminum with your hands.
     
  14. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    If £ Sterling is so great, why doesn't the Queen carry any?

    In my world, currency is predominantly electronic data. I hand over a card, I punch in a code, I get what I wanted, even if that's bits of paper.
     
  15. Joll

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    14,517
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    723
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wales (GB)
    Not sure, dude - I took it as a genuine question as to what we thought of the Czech Rep joining, and whether we thought the euro a good idea, or not. But...I guess I like opportunities to vent over the euro, so maybe I was overlooking something. :tongue:

    As to whether I'm proud or not - I do like the pound, and am proud of it to a certain extent, but tend to view currency as a mainly financial and political tool (altho, I guess cultural too sometimes?). If I was visiting another country tho, I wouldnt normally think twice about whether people should be proud of it or otherwise. The euro's slightly different tho, as it has huge political significance in the UK and EU. I do feel it was forced onto ppl, and used to coerce member states further into eventual political union (which was stated at the time), at great cost to themselves in some cases, it turns out.
     
    #15 Joll, Dec 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2010
  16. 123scotty

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    564
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    9
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    scotland
    Verified:
    Photo
    the single currency in europe is still a good idea. currencies are starting to join along the lines of the euro. ie china and other asian countries in the region. also oil countries would love to deal in a strong currency other than the dollar. [if they dare look at iraq] yes the euro has faults but it is still worth fighting to keep so yes i would be happy to use the euro
     
  17. eurotop40

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,524
    Likes Received:
    122
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zurich (ZH, CH)
  18. eurotop40

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,524
    Likes Received:
    122
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zurich (ZH, CH)
  19. Jason

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    9,932
    Likes Received:
    641
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London (GB)
    It's YOUTH unemployment in Spain that is 42% - overall unemployment is around 20%. Youth is defined as 18-25.

    History will be written by the victors. If Spain gets away with unemployment at this level then it is a manageable level of unemployment. If it collapses in strikes and goes broke then it isn't. There isn't an obvious place for Spanish youth to migrate to. The EU is not overflowing with jobs for people who speak Spanish and poor French or English (or whatever). The free movement of labour concept really isn't working. And it is the 18-25 year olds in Spain who are getting the brunt.
     
  20. dandelion

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    7,893
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    599
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Verified:
    Photo
    Then perhaps we can agree that the euro is a good tool for holding value till needed.


    Goodness, how many ills have been caused by governments manipulating their currency.. They use it as a tool to tax people by stealth. I see no way this is desireable. It simply allows politicians another way to lie to people. Far better we ditch currencies under the control of local governments and aim for a world currency. In the meanwhile, we have the euro.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted