Are you - Religious - ??

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tott666: I'm not religious.

I simply try to be a good person and hope others will too. I try to treat others with respect and be helpful and polite, especially to those who generally get treated like garbage.

I hold up doors and all that, or sometimes chip in with some small change if the cashier asks for it from the customer ahead of me at the supermarket and they don't have it. Offer a light when I see someone fumble through their bag/pockets for a lighter.

Tiny, tiny things which don't really take any time or effort.

I try to not be rude and bitchy. Sometimes I fail. At times miserably so.
 
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TripodMillenium: I will try to address the things mentioned as I can bring them up...

But where does evil come from in Pagan etc. beliefs, who's to blame for everything that sucks in this world, if Nature is a religion in itself, why are we killing it, why is it losing the battle?
well - here I say that the source of evil, in my view, is people allowing themselves to go bad (like a 3-week-old tomato), letting themselves be tainted by refusing to see the truth and light that is there in them... Where a light is shut off, a room will fill with darkness, no? Both things are natural parts of things - so part of being a better being is not succumbing to the darkness...

Also, about the killing-Nature and Nature-loosing-the-battle stuff what I have to say is this: are we not ourselves part of Nature? We are able to be screwing it up and continuing because we are a part of that which we kill - think about people with heart problems... One thing gets f#$%ed up and the whole body can die... We are acting like a heart that is failing or a major organ that is cancerous and is spreading it like wildfire... Just like with diseases, there is a cure for what we are doing if we could just find it - it is in our hands to do it.... Nature is Nature, she is as loving as harsh - she isn't going to baby us and bail us out of jail, we have to serve the time ourselves (or get out early on good behavior...)

That leads me to the whole "framework" thing... Think of it this way... "God" is called "Lord" and, often, "King" - which is like what his religions' frameworks are (like a monarchy) So when you wonder what the Pagan framework is (for Nature-based) it is basically a pure democracy... All beings of all kinds come together to, in Union, form the framework.... And since it is our TRUE selves inside that "vote" the framework works, and in such an astounding way as to be incomprehendable due to its subtleties.....

NEXT!
Ok, here goes. I'm not sure if something is automatically wrong if you're not sure about it. Theres so many things i'm not sure about, my life would be a big fat lieif it were all wrong. I think that in every choice you make theres doubt, dillemma, and wonder. With small choices, and big ones.

On this I wasn't being as literal as it seemed - and I am sorry for the misunderstanding (when you spend most of your life mired in philosophy, you tend to naturally get a little cryptic without meaning to....).... What I meant by being sure was that you were sure of the choice you made - even if you are not sure if it was the "right" one.... If you have not settled yet and you are not comfortable with your choice, then it is not for you.... But I do NOT mean that to be in totality.... The specifics of it may just not be right for you... (for instance, the view on homosexuality may not aggree with what you, deep down, feel best fits your inner truth... How much of your religion is wrong for you depends on how uncomfortable you are with that choice... (if it nags at you like a swarm of killer bees attacking your flesh, then you are probably MILES way from your personal path, but if it is just a tiny, little, almost insignificant itch, then you probably are just a line or two of guidelines off.... I'm not saying that if you are AT ALL unsure that you have the wrong religion, but I AM saying that if there is another religion that better fits how you, personally, feel, then you should not hesitate for a second in following your heart to the truer path! For instance, if you come from a Christian family, but your internal beliefs are more like that of Judaism, then don't say "feh, they're close enough - I'll just stay Christian", because you would be betraying yourself....

And even if your decision suddenly doesn't feel right anymore written as it is, then don't hesitate to change your beliefs.... People change, so do their thoughts and beliefs.... And if you are thinking, "well I can't just be jumping around like that at the drop of a hat..." Then I have to say "What the F#$% is anchoring you there but YOU?" You don't owe your religion your continued presence - you only owe it to yourself to follow your heart where it may lead you, and to avoid living a lie AT ALL COSTS! I lived as a Jew for most of my life so far, just because I didn't want to hurt or dissapoint my family by "refusing" the religion they follow.... But I was living a lie, and I would have been 10 TIMES happier if I would have converted sooner... At least I didn't convert for such a shallow reason as my oldest brother became a Christian for, though.... His wife's family wouldn't support the wedding unless he was Christian.... If converting/staying in a religion for anyone else but yourself, and for any other reasons than your true beliefs, doesn't cheapen a religion and take all the meaning out of it, then I don't know what does!!!

< gasps for air :D >

Now for SchroederJr's comment....
I don't know about earth-based religions, as most of those seem very centered on this world and its power, not of overcoming it. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, Tripod.

Well, as I see it, due to the framework of things, the world is what we make of it as much as it is set.... So, in a way, it is as much what you said as it is also about overcoming - but the overcoming always starts within yourself.... It is like what many old philosophers have spoken of.... the Macrocosm and the Microcosm.... The Big Universe (commonly just known as the Universe), and the Little Universe (the Self, and the body) - a person is like a little universe by themself (made up of trillions of tiny little cells as apposed to stars and planets). Both are a universe in themselves, and both are connected as One... It is always best to start in your own backyard before you move on to the world......


And finally, for mekkler:

< jumps with almost-giddy joy ;D > I am so glad to see I am not alone here, maybe we should talk personally sometime?....

Later all....
TripodMillenium
 
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joe22xxx: Most of my friends would answer this: I'm spiritual,not religious. I think I go along with it. I met this very interesting man who is a Buddhist monk, and the way he talks about his spiritual path really speaks to me. It's hard to put it into words. For me this guy is a very "spiritual" person,but also down-to-earth. For me he really lives what he believes, and that's kinda rare today.
 
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Finnmark: Spiritual ? Yes, I believe so, I certainly hope so.

Religious ? No. And this from one with a very 'committed' religious history, and professionally too. But no longer ... I have come to see 'religion' as THE most dangerous threat to humanity, a curse almost. And it is ineradicable.

I could be tempted to expand on this, but once started would never stop. Which might be rather tedious!

I'll just say that I find myself agreeing warmly with tott666's sentiments on this subject. And - as it happens - on music too!
 
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wvalady1968: [quote author=bilbobagginsx link=board=99;num=1057179521;start=20#38 date=07/08/03 at 13:05:09]When God sends us here we are fully aware of the horrible things that await some of us.  He must worry bout us, just as we'd worry about our own children, as we battle famine, despots, AIDS, typhoons, random violence, adultery, theft, murder...

He could prevent it, yes.  I guess sometimes He does when it suits his purpose.  But for some reason it is necessary that we be here so that we may experience things that we cannot experience otherwise.

Can you imagine the ranks of angels who must have stood by at the crucifixion of Christ, awaiting a never-shouted order to stop the madness and save Him from an excruciating death?  How close did God come to issuing that order as His heart broke for his suffering Son?

Christians know now the wisdom in His not issuing the order at that time.  

Someday we'll fully understand the wisdom behind what happens to the rest of us here on Earth, and why He has not yet issued such an order to end the suffering of Mankind.

In the meantime we just hope and cope.

Pecker[/quote]


Yeah, that's what I believe, too.
 
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SimplyHung: I'm not so much religious as I am spiritual. And I'm working on a novel-trilogy that puts an interesting twist on Biblical history.
 
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aj2181: My religous beliefs are harder to pin down than my political beliefs. I consider myself a Christian. I don't go to church or follow any specific rules etc. I was raised a Baptist. I stoped going to church when I was a teenager to the disgust of my parents.

It has no influence on how I conduct my sex life...I don't let it...I'm like Dee. I have a borderline disgust for organized religon, but I try to have respect for everyones beliefs.
 

Ralexx

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We're all, indirectly, Christians, willing or not. As long as we live in a Christianity-based civilisation and follow its rules, habits, ethics... I do not say (mean, imply, etc.) that India, China, Japan are Christian or will become, but these regions were conquered by one of the main expressions of the Christian belief : science.

I like it... I'll be back with a story. ;)
 

Ralexx

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I said I'll post a story regarding religion... I gave it a thought and... it might be irrelevant. So... :(
 
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oldman9x7: VERY interesting thread.

I've been reminded as I've perused of how very screwed up "people" can become. An example: one of my daughters has got caught up in a splinter group of a very popular and large denomination. They espouse great sympathy for the Catholics, Methodists, etc., etc. because they are not SAVED!!!! In effect saying that they are the only ones who truly are. She has also been warned NOT to attend services at another church of the EXACT SAME name as the congregation to which she belongs - because - - THEY are using the WRONG version of the King James Bible! WHAT??????

For myself, I claim Christ as my Lord and Savior and although I no longer attend any church I am conscious of trying to pattern my life after His teachings. I mainly cling to the "new commandment" to love one another. In my feeble mind it seems that if the world community was to work toward this end, the major ills of the earth , hunger, poverty, war and pestilance would gradually melt away.

I'm sure this won't happen in my lifetime or possible for millenia thereafter but it can't hurt if I make my small contribution while I'm here.

I guess what I'm saying is - do the best you can with what you've got AND (come on) D.S.T.S.S (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff).

Gramps
 
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jerkin4-10: i am a christian...probably if i died today would go to hell...cuz im doing stuff i know better...lots of short quick prayers during the day [sometimes], do acknowledge
all the little things and BIG things in life in a quick, 'thank you God', i need to make better choices with my life, then ill be ok...
 
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bblumbee: Everyone has spoken so eloquently on this thread. I must say I was shocked initially to see a thread as such, but pleased nonetheless.

I am Christian, Pentecostal Holiness doctrine, but also practice my traditional faith (American Indian spirituality). I think the question lies with how does one view the moralities of their behavior and the world. If one is able to 'morally justify' it, then clearly it becomes an acceptable behavior for him. If one is convicted by it, then it becomes a behavior one would need to re-visit.

There is a disparity between my Christian faith and my traditional spirituality. That is something I have had to come to terms with within myself. It is something that is difficult, as the realm of spiritual indoctrination varies from religious backgrounds.

You will have to search deep within yourself and begin to address the issues you might have in order to effectively be able to reconcile any differences. Accepting yourself is by far the greatest faith you can share with anyone. If you are strong within yourself, then others can see it. When they see it, they respond to it. Spirituality is a concept of self-reliance and healing. Hold onto your identity and your faith... it defines who you are.

Just my two cents.....

bb
 
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longtimelurker: Hmm, I'm going have to be careful about how I write this, as I'm not too keen on offending all & sundry...

I do not classify myself as religious, although I was baptised Methodist and did toy with it at certain periods. I am far too rational a person to beleive something just because some guys wrote a book 2000-odd years ago - I'd need more physical proof than that, call me a doubting Thomas.

I am more of a Humanist - which is a believer that people should always do what's best for mankind as a whole. Very hippy and 'make love not war' and all that ;)

What really gets me, though are the people that use religion to put down people that they don't agree with. I personally believe the misuse of religion has been a cause of much bloodshed and suffering in the world (although I will admit that it has also helped many more find inner peace, or however you want to put it). For instance, I believe that religion is the major cause of the ingrained homophobia found in much of the western world. When the press here was talking about the (almost) election of a Mr John as the Anglican churches' first gay bishop it was pointed out that the only part of the bible that blatantly speaks against homosexuality is Leviticus (I think) - and that book also discusses many other laws and rules that time has forgotten - the only thing really keeping the church from acceptance is a few high-ranking homophobic church officials thinking that they can tell the entire world what is 'right' and 'wrong'.

Grrr - sorry, one of my touchy subjects :mad:
 
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Javierdude22: [quote author=longtimelurker link=board=99;num=1057179521;start=40#57 date=09/09/03 at 12:06:35]I am more of a Humanist - which is a believer that people should always do what's best for mankind as a whole. Very hippy and 'make love not war' and all that  ;)

I personally believe the misuse of religion has been a cause of much bloodshed and suffering in the world (although I will admit that it has also helped many more find inner peace, or however you want to put it). [/quote]

Hey there Longtimelurker, I'm sure you didn't step on anyone's toes  :). But i do think there's an entry for debate here though.

While i totally agree with you that religion has oftentimes been used by us humans to break eachother's faces, I disagree that it is the actual cause.

I'll explain. I believe personally that humans will take anything up to break eachother's faces, if it is over interests, ideology, religion, borderlines, jealousy, or strife. It might sound as a depressive way to look at life, but humans  are being tormented by good and evil, Yin and Yang. We never júst choose one side, it is always time and situationdependant which side we choose.

The point I would like to make with this is that we are not inherently good, nor evil, we have both as an intrinsic part of our inner selves, and we are governed by them.
So, to flip the hypothesis around that religion is the cause of bloodshed, I think it is merely a tool, we will take anything at hand to kill eachother, something an era of ideology like the Cold War has shown us.

But yes, we have taken religion up many times to judge people (but again, I do believe we would judge people anyhow, if not on religion, then on ideology or the type of clothes you wear). And that when judgement is supposed to be left to the Dude upstairs himself. I won't go into the judgement call against homosexuality, but I do believe that we as a society are taking things a bit too far sometimes in what we believe should be acceptable. The new ideology of this millennium is go with the flow, do what you want. While I have many friends that live by that rule as well,  (I try not to meddle too much into what they do, hell, I'm no saint either), I do believe some things should not be ok sometimes, even though it seems 'uncool' nowadays to put up a border against something.
 
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longtimelurker: Yes, very valid points, but I think one of the major problems is that it gives a very easy tool to distort the views of large populations. There are many areas whereby a religious leader can alter opinions (admittedly for either good or bad) in ways that other authority figures (i.e. government, police, family...) cannot - and there isn't any way of preventing any nutter from standing up and saying 'God/Allah/<your diety here> tells us that XYZ is evil' most people will ignore them, but the problem is that it is always 'most' and not 'all', and people seem to lose fear of reprisals when religion is concerned. Again, its not the fault of the religion, but the misuse of it - but the problem is that it is so easy to misuse and the consequences can be quite terrible.
 
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robbnks: Raised Southern Baptist. I live a normal life without excessive dogma interfering. I would say I am more spiritual than religious.
 
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mindseye: It'd surprise a lot of you (and maybe not that many) to find that my background is Quaker. I'm a graduate of the school that box-cutter-guy Nat Heatwole attends (and his calculus teacher this semester is my college roommate!)

One of the tenets of Quaker philosophy is that there's more than one way to get from A to B. Unlike denominations that rigorously enforce a protocol for salvation (you have to be baptized; you have to accept Jesus; etc.), Quakers acknowledge that whatever Mystery is out there is surely so multifaceted and incomprehensible to us that it can't be limited to just a single path or a single representation. In concordance with that belief, Quakers reject the idea of 'evangelism' and of 'saving' other people -- we're taught to tolerate that they may simply be on a different path than ours that leads toward the same Truth.

Although I no longer consider myself Quaker, I do try to remind myself periodically of this notion that people whose belief systems are different from mine might very well be striving towards the same ultimate destination, only in a different way.




On a lighter note, I thought this was kind of amusing:



churchsign.jpg
 
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huge_cock_have_pic: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kelly_ffwonders/vwp?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.dnm=kelly.jpg&.view= t

the problem here is that the new testament also condemns homosexuality.

Back to the main topic--there is a gap between us as human beings and God. That gap is caused by sin. A perfect God will not tolerate imperfection. That is why He sent his Son to die on a cross. It is the sacrifice that can bridge the gap.
 
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Jake27: Well for me, I'm a devout Holy Roman Catholic. Which makes life a lot easier for me but has cause some of the strangest arguments in my family. (Baptist, Methodist, Non-Denom, and Athiest)

LOL although we seem to get along well enough. My thoughts still run around in 14th century circles concerning catholic doctrine and theology.

However; my Faith has given me more peice, security and answers than anything else I dabbled in over the years.
 
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Tender: well i have to say that lately i have found myself in the hope and cope mode...
but id rather be in the know and beleive mode if you know what i mean...
i have found that the walk has highs and lows... sort of a cycle persay... that you sometimes have to wait out so to speak....

i try to live by the Book's words, not so and so's idea of the Book...
but i do struggle alot and often...
i too was raised in church... Nazarene.
and my father is a pastor.
ok lol ya'all can laugh now :D

yes its true what they say about the preachers daughter :-/
Tender