Arizona Republican=Holocaust Denier

Rikter8

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So who would qualify as one of those "folks that are questionable"?

From what I have read so far... the Police were told to only check due to crime, or suspicious activity - NOT to profile people.

If your suspicious, the police have the right to ask for your id....even if your a pastey like me.

Will it be abused? Sure. But it's no different than what it is now. Many police abuse their appointed power.

Like just about every bill, proposal lately...it's not thought out. It needs to be tailored a bit, such as stiff fines for harrassment etc.

Government will only change if forced. This is forcing the hand. They should respond with something to appease the masses.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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The problem is that the bill doesn't specify what "reasonable suspicion" is, with regard to "looking like" an illegal immigrant.

Exactly! In places like Arizona where there's a problem with controlling the border, most people have associated "illegal immigrant" with Mexican. With so many races in this country, there is simply no way you can train someone how to pick out an illegal immigrant out of a crowd of people effectively.

In fact, many cities, including Phoenix, have stated that they are going to ask EVERYBODY that they stop for proof of citizenship. PAPERS PLEASE!

Which basically elevates the problem to a modern day witch hunt, with Mexicans being the prime suspect unless legislators think this law will also help to capture any European looking illegal immigrants as well.
 

B_OtterJoq

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you know, Usama Bin Laden paid for several medical facilities to be built in his lifetime, should we burn them down because of OTHER stuff he did?
If you can't make a mature argument don't make any argument at all....
it looks better for the people on your side believe me

If Pearce's connection with neo-Nazis wasn't so tight, I wouldn't worry so much.

But any sane person who looks at Pearce's history MUST ask what his motivation TRULY is. I don't disagree that something needs to be done...just not THIS.
 

Bbucko

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So the same people who disrupted the health care debate with cries over unconstitutional governmental intrusion in their lives now want to empower the police with the ability to verify someone's identity (and detain them if refused) at their whim? Color me shocked...shocked.
 

HazelGod

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The problem is that the bill doesn't specify what "reasonable suspicion" is, with regard to "looking like" an illegal immigrant. In fact, many cities, including Phoenix, have stated that they are going to ask EVERYBODY that they stop for proof of citizenship. PAPERS PLEASE!

You really should stop posting your opinions vis-a-vis legal matters. Each of your successive declarations makes clearer just how little you know.

Numerous state and federal precedents have been established over the years defining the standards and criteria of reasonable suspicion as it pertains to possible criminal behavior as observed by law enforcement officers. See Terry v. Ohio for starters. It isn't as though this law creates some vague new twilight zone of perception that lacks any defined scope. Furthermore, I highly doubt any city official with any policymaking authority has gone on record with anything even approaching the stupidity as what you're asserting (without substantiation, no less).


Libtards? It aint just "libtards" against this law. It's Libertarians too. Hell, even Marco Rubio, tea bagger idol, is against it.
Way to completely miss the humor, BTW. :rolleyes:
 

nudeyorker

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The only person I've fully agreed with so far in this thread is HazelGod. I'm going to contact a couple people in Arizona to get some feedback from someone who actually lives there.
PS to the OP I lost family due to the Holocaust, you have no idea how titles like this piss me off since I don't see them sending illegal aliens off to death camps.
 

HazelGod

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So you're fine with the fact that a Holocaust denier with strong neo-Nazi ties is the father of this legislation, yes?
A textbook illustration of why ad hominem "reasoning" is considered logically fallacious.


Oh...If you get to use "libtard," then I get to call you a "CUNTservative." Deal?
If you don't mind making yourself even more of a laughingstock than you already have, then by all means, be my guest.
 

B_OtterJoq

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The only person I've fully agreed with so far in this thread is HazelGod. I'm going to contact a couple people in Arizona to get some feedback from someone who actually lives there.
PS to the OP I lost family due to the Holocaust, you have no idea how titles like this piss me off since I don't see them sending illegal aliens off to death camps.

I had relatives who lost their lives the same way. I didn't mean to imply that anyone was going to be sent to camps; what I DID mean is to show that the person who introduced this legislation refers to the Holocaust as "a tale."

In other words, Russell Pearce doubts the Holocaust EVEN HAPPENED!

Now, THAT'S offensive not just to me, but to all of humanity.

Please know that no offense was meant to anyone other than those who applaud this man and his associations.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Speaking from personal experience, as someone that has been stopped, pulled over or interrogated by authority figures for "looking the type" several times in his lifetime, I can tell you firsthand that there is room for concern with the legislation. I don't think anyone who doesn't like the current immigration bill passed in AZ is concerned about the authoritative figures that actually do their job right... it's the ones that purposely abuse their sovereignty they worry about.

One time, I kid you not, I was stopped by police after leaving a public bathroom because one of them claimed that I was trying to pickpocket the person I was standing next to at a row of urinals. That's despite the fact that I was in a three piece suit and had plenty of money in my own pocket. But did it stop them from throwing me up against the wall, demanding to see my ID (which I was lucky to have at the time) and be inconvenienced for 30 minutes as they talked to other cops on their walky-talkies about some guy rumored to be robbing people that fit my description? Nope. And they didn't seem to care that I missed my train and had to catch a $65 cab ride home either. They were just "concerned about everyone's safety". That was back when I was 16 years of age and living in Boston. Hell, some security guards STILL look at me funny when I walk into a shopping center. Like how dare I decide to walk the streets of Midtown Manhattan to go shopping... isn't there enough places for people who "fit my description" to buy things in Sunset Park?

Yeah... try telling me that all of the authorities in any state will be properly trained to be able to find an illegal immigrant in a crowd. You'll never be able to convince me of that.
 

mikeyh9in

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So the same people who disrupted the health care debate with cries over unconstitutional governmental intrusion in their lives now want to empower the police with the ability to verify someone's identity (and detain them if refused) at their whim? Color me shocked...shocked.

There is a singular, common thread to all of these activities... and it is a deep seeded racism (call it xenophobia if you want).

The TEA party's real message is == I don't want the Government giving my money to the blacks or immigrants.

Arizona's Show me your Papers law == We don't want anyone here except people that look like us.

The Birthers == A black man cannot be our President.

Protect Marriage folks == Homosexuals are second class citizens.

If you try to use any sort of logic to decipher these groups, it fails, unless you view the groups through the lens of racism/xenophobia.

But, the people are not to blame, it is the politicians that use these groups to further their own personal cause -- and that is power and money.

The people in these group are ignorant (and usually under-educated and old) and there is very little hope to alter their views, but the Republican party that are using these people for their own gain should be ashamed.

These groups represent an exclusionary view of the world -- it is us against them -- us, "true Americans" to speak Palin, versus *them* -- be it blacks, immigrants, gays, or any other minority group.

The silver lining in all of this is that we have encountered these same people in previous generations... be it when slavery was ending, when women were allowed to vote, when social security was enacted, when blacks and whites were allowed to marry, when gays rioted at stonewall.

Their hate is nothing new.

Time will prove, once again, that they are on the wrong side of history.
 

HazelGod

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I don't see anyone doing that. I DO see a lot of name-calling, however.
Check the mirror.

Your linked article makes no mention of Pearce making the statement you're contending he made. He did forward an email that was sent to him that used the phrase "Holocaust tale," but those aren't his words, and that's not quite the same thing as denial...especially not in the extreme context you're attempting to twist it.
 

lucky8

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I think it would be fair to say any criminal should have thier status checked at the very least

people who are making totally insane traffic violations, as if they have no liscence...people who want to get a liscenece...people who want to vote...
people who don't speak English
and anyone who says "..eh" at the end of a sentence


Dude, illegal immigrants are the best drivers around...
 

1kmb1

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I think it would be fair to say any criminal should have thier status checked at the very least

people who are making totally insane traffic violations, as if they have no liscence...people who want to get a liscenece...people who want to vote...
people who don't speak English
and anyone who says "..eh" at the end of a sentence

let me see your papers sir :p
 

midlifebear

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Well, take it from some one who is familiar with Arizona (me), white supremacist groups are as common as weeds on an empty lot in that State. However, one thing that no one seems to bring up is Senator McCain . . . you know? . . . the guy who ran against Obama and has been a Senator from Arizona for at least 30 years? He's represented Arizona for three decades and has had plenty of time to be the "leader" with regard to immigration reform. Anyone else besides me notice his 30-year inactivity on the subject? And this guy was hoping to be the POTUS?

There are lots of good reasons to work on immigration reform, but letting the 50 States come up with their own individual versions of immigration reform IS NOT one of them. Which brings me to Hazelgod's linked ABC News article. Sure, Al Qaeda is a concern. But the House, Senate and last four presidents all had ample time to take a stab a doing something about it. Now it's being thrust into Obama's lap with a "sudden need" that was not expected of his predecessors? Sounds like politics as usual since the Party Of No has been sitting around with their collective thumbs up their collective ass holes.

Again, with regard to race, it was no "coincidence" that Arizona (and Ewetaw) were the last States to recognize Martin Luther King Day. Mexico has been Arizona's closest business/trade partner than any other State or country. That's one of the reasons Arizona does not "spring forward" and "fall back" with the rest of the States for daylight savings time: Mexico doesn't play daylight savings time. So, when your biggest trading partner (about 30% of Arizona's commerce is directly linked with Mexico) it makes economic sense to get up and go to bed at the same times.

I only hope that Mexico takes measures to boycott Arizona. Mexico still has New Mexico, Texas, and California as direct trade partners. Arizona (actually the area around Yuma) has been a major force in growing produce that ends up in stores in Chicago, New Jersey, New York, and surrounding areas. Depending upon only legal immigrant help to cut and wrap lettuce will put a big dent in 'Mericuh's favorite no-calorie, no-nutrition food (iceberg head lettuce) making it less available as well as less affordable. Oh, and there are onions, tomatoes, garlic and some citrus fruit, too. Arizona's mining industry isn't as important as it once was (just go to Bizby and look at the big open-pit hole). Arizona's second biggest industry is tourism. For the best view of the Grand Canyon, go to Las Vegas and take a helicopter or small airplane ride over and down through the canyon. Vegas (and Nevada) needs the business.

Anyone remember when Arizona was ignored/passed over for hosting the Super Bowl because Arizona's House and Senate continued to vote against Martin Luther King Day? Anyone?
 
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