As a Homosexual, what needs to change in your country to make you feel equal citizen?

[ginger_qboy]

I am gay and I hate - absolutely hate - 'anti-hate' speech laws. Nor do I support
doubling the punishment if it is considered a hate crime ( by the way, my gay partner was murdered five years ago ). You can't fry a murderer twice regardless of what hate thoughts are in his head. There is absolutely no proof that hate laws have a deterrent effect. You cannot legislate love, hate, equality, fairness or decency.
I hate tribunals deciding what is and isn't offensive like they have in Canada.

If you are offended, prove it in court. Otherwise do not limit freedom of speech.
Besides, I'd rather someone just get it off his chest rather than act it out.
Political correctness is invidious, corrosive, and the beginning of the end of our freedoms. All totalitarian societies begin with political correctness.
All you do-gooders please spare me of your "good intentions."

There's a difference between FREEDOM OF SPEECH and HATE SPEECH!!!

Freedom also means being free from having hateful slurs such as faggot, poof, nigger, paki, queer, dyke, nip, chink, etc., yelled out at you.

since you seem to support any form of speech as freedom of speech how you like to walk out of your house everyday and have your neighbours yell out FAGGOT! COCK SUCKER! QUEER! ??? it's their right, isn't it? it's the first amendment of the US constitution - freedom of speech, say whatever you want to whomever. FUCK YOU NIGGER! is that acceptable?
Is it acceptable for politicians to publicly announce that homosexuals are pedophiles, the scum of society and need to be locked up??? According to you, yes.

I'm quite happy with the laws of the UK, Canada and MANY European countries which allow it's citizens to freely express their thoughts, feelings and opinions without spreading hate.

Have you been to a country with 'anit-hate' laws? have you spoken with individuals in those countires that would encounter hate speech or be discriminated against in yours?

 

[B_Artful Dodger]

I want the government which is supposed to operate without religion being involved to grow some proper balls and declare marriage an act between two adults who love each other and want it acknowledged rather than the cow-towing to the church which claim they own the word and so we have to settle for civil-partnership

I agree that the church is behind the times on this and that sooner or later its going to have to face up to the fact that there are alot of gays out there - who are not evil and condemed to hell any more than the rest of us...
However, I'm afraid the church does have a say in this and I'm behind it whatever its decision because I think anything which is serving to carry on some sort of British culture is a good thing (even if I dont totally agree/believe in it)

 

[blurijdad]

YEAH I CAN HANDLE IT! BRING IT ON! STICKS AND STONES - ever heard of them but WORDS can never hurt me.

YES - I've been called faggot. YES got a gay buddy in Belgium and visit him twice a year - so I know all about hate tribunals over there.

DO you really think you can legislate people's MINDS ?

But cool down buddy, your government is going to take care of you.
You'll never have to depend on yourself for anything.
All you have to do is be a big baby and cry to somebody about stubbing your toe.

 

[blurijdad]

Noticed you used the N word. Hope you got a thrill out of that.
I don't use the word out of personal respect. I don't need to be told or threatened not to use it. I was also raised down south in Georgia and have had sex with a black basketplayer. Funny, they call each other the N word all the time and laugh about it.

A little less sensitivity and more of a sense of humor would make us all better off.

 

[ginger_qboy]

But cool down buddyQUOTE]

There wasn't a drop of aggression or anger in my reply.

 

[ginger_qboy]

Noticed you used the N word. Hope you got a thrill out of that.
I don't use the word out of personal respect. I don't need to be told or threatened not to use it. I was also raised down south in Georgia and have had sex with a black basketplayer. Funny, they call each other the N word all the time and laugh about it.

A little less sensitivity and more of a sense of humor would make us all better off.

Yes, I did use the N word. I also used the F word, the C word, the P word, teh Q word...

 

[mitchymo]

However, I'm afraid the church does have a say in this and I'm behind it whatever its decision because I think anything which is serving to carry on some sort of British culture is a good thing (even if I dont totally agree/believe in it)

Culture is a changeable thing and i despise the idea of having to hold on to a 'british' culture, i want more diversity to exist with plenty of other cultures combining a global culture, a human culture.

DO you really think you can legislate people's MINDS ?

You can certainly influence though and that is the importance of anti-hate speech laws which cut out a hefty dose of experience. If you bring a child up in a home where there is constant cursing you can expect the child to be foul-mouthed in public. Attitudes change when people grow up to learn that their parents behaviour is not necessarily the correct way to behave.
You cannot stop it completely but you can stop it mostly.

If you were ever bullied as a kid you might realise that sticks hurt just as much as stones i can tell you, it's great that law shields people especially kids from having to suffer such hate and so i have to agree with ginger on this one.

 

[pbnation]

Forcing awareness only makes discrimination worse.

 

[blurijdad]

I also was stationed and lived in Hawaii for a whole lot of years.
Raised my son over there as a single dad.

Hawaii is the only state where a white man can sue for discrimination legally since caucasians are in the minority over there. My son was afraid to go to school because one day a year they have a day over there called Kill a Haole Day ( haole = white guy). My son survived - just graduated high school. We got over it. Personally, I can't think of a better place to raise a boy. Sports year round and simple living. Not to mention nudist beaches - lol.

And no, there is no such freedom as being free from being called anything.
But there will always be people like you who don't mind Nazi tribunals making the laws.

 

[blurijdad]

"He who governs controls and he who is controlled is not free"

Mitch, my fellow gay friend, you are right about the home being the best teacher; but your quote above disputes the very thing you say.

How can you be FREE when hate-speech panels do the controlling ?? When any government entity does the controlling and dispenses what you can and cannot say ?
In Canada people can actually be fined or imprisoned for things they utter. Ask Mark Stein ( a brilliant writer) who went through one of these panels. He was exonerated, and the panel suffered national embarrassment.

I think the problem with liberals is that they just don't use logic and think clearly - some kind of genetic defect. It's all emotions and fuzzy headed thinking about how wonderful the world would be IF this or IF that and are always looking for some messiah (or govt. program) to lead them to nirvana.

 

[mitchymo]

"He who governs controls and he who is controlled is not free"

Mitch, my fellow gay friend, you are right about the home being the best teacher; but your quote above disputes the very thing you say.

How can you be FREE when hate-speech panels do the controlling ?? When any government entity does the controlling and dispenses what you can and cannot say ?
In Canada people can actually be fined or imprisoned for things they utter. Ask Mark Stein ( a brilliant writer) who went through one of these panels. He was exonerated, and the panel suffered national embarrassment.

I think the problem with liberals is that they just don't use logic and think clearly - some kind of genetic defect. It's all emotions and fuzzy headed thinking about how wonderful the world would be IF this or IF that and are always looking for some messiah (or govt. program) to lead them to nirvana.

That quote is a fact simple as that. It serves to show truth and can be applied to the opposite argument that a bully controls with his menace (hate-speech) and thus the victim is controlled.

I love the quote which is why i have it as a signature, in an ideal world a true democracy people would'nt be so hateful and the likelihood of ever needing such protection of law would be slim. I am a supporter of the zeitgeist movement and i am inspired by their ideology that will unlikely be realised in my lifetime or yours i imagine. Liberals are not as you depict, the logic is abundant it is the application in a messed up world that makes the ideas seem radical or impossible.

 

[B_Artful Dodger]

Culture is a changeable thing and i despise the idea of having to hold on to a 'british' culture, i want more diversity to exist with plenty of other cultures combining a global culture, a human culture.

This is a completely different topic and I dont want to take over your thread with it, but having one massive, blended culture is not diversity. In fact its the opposite.
I think all nations/peoples should cling onto their traditional values and customs. Individuality is always a good thing

 

[thadjock]

I think all nations/peoples should cling onto their traditional values and customs. Individuality is always a good thing

warning: the following contains sarcasm

yeah if the united states ever wants to regain it's superior position in the world they really need to get back to the traditional values and cutstoms when southerners were encouraged to put chains on people and make them work for free, or at the very least let them drag african americans behind their pickup trucks until they're dead, just for looking at a white girl.

is that the kind of individuality you're talkin about?

 

[ginger_qboy]

And no, there is no such freedom as being free from being called anything.
But there will always be people like you who don't mind Nazi tribunals making the laws.

Nazi tribunals? WHAT???? lol

Nazi's did many things BUT defend human rights! The Canadian Human Rights Commission does just that.

 

[ginger_qboy]

"He who governs controls and he who is controlled is not free"

Mitch, my fellow gay friend, you are right about the home being the best teacher; but your quote above disputes the very thing you say.

How can you be FREE when hate-speech panels do the controlling ?? When any government entity does the controlling and dispenses what you can and cannot say ?
In Canada people can actually be fined or imprisoned for things they utter. Ask Mark Stein ( a brilliant writer) who went through one of these panels. He was exonerated, and the panel suffered national embarrassment.

I think the problem with liberals is that they just don't use logic and think clearly - some kind of genetic defect. It's all emotions and fuzzy headed thinking about how wonderful the world would be IF this or IF that and are always looking for some messiah (or govt. program) to lead them to nirvana.

how can your post be taken seriously when you resort to implying Liberals have a genetic defect, that they're all emotional blah, blah. seriously.

 

[novice_btm]

Are there any countries that grant citizenship (naturalization) via marriage/union, to foreign-born homosexuals?

 

[ginger_qboy]

warning: the following contains sarcasm

yeah if the united states ever wants to regain it's superior position in the world they really need to get back to the traditional values and cutstoms when southerners were encouraged to put chains on people and make them work for free, or at the very least let them drag african americans behind their pickup trucks until they're dead, just for looking at a white girl.

is that the kind of individuality you're talkin about?

LOL! that's exactly the kind of freedom blurijdad is talkign about. I'm sure the 'government' took that fun away from the free people!!!
"He who governs controls and he who is controlled is not free"
looks like you're already controlled blurijdad.

that shit didn't really happen, did it thadjock?

 

[novice_btm]

...that shit didn't really happen, did it thadjock?

There are reported cases of it happening as late as the mid-1900s.

EDIT: By that, I mean mid-century, as in 1940s-1960s.

 

[mitchymo]

This is a completely different topic and I dont want to take over your thread with it, but having one massive, blended culture is not diversity. In fact its the opposite.
I think all nations/peoples should cling onto their traditional values and customs. Individuality is always a good thing

I ca'nt better what TJ said.

 

[B_Artful Dodger]

warning: the following contains sarcasm

yeah if the united states ever wants to regain it's superior position in the world they really need to get back to the traditional values and cutstoms when southerners were encouraged to put chains on people and make them work for free, or at the very least let them drag african americans behind their pickup trucks until they're dead, just for looking at a white girl.

is that the kind of individuality you're talkin about?

No... actually that is not what I'm refering to. That was not a tradition; merely a lot of un-educated people demonstrating their ignorance. America has many fine traditions (Cant see myself ever saying that again...), as does everywhere else