As Texas Dumbs Down, So Does the USA

[midlifebear]

An incredible, intelligent, and for a long time my best friend (he died at 82) had been initially educated by Jesuits in Tucson, Arizona. His father, an Italian Jew, had asked around regarding the best schools in the South West and was pleased to discover than his son was able to receive a classical education in pre-airconditioned Arizona in the 1920s. My friend later went on to attend university at Oxford and the Sorbonne. He never was a christian. But that didn't matter to the Jesuits who imbued him with the skills to think, reason, and be his own man.

Frank (his nick name) never embraced his Jewish heritage or converted to christianity. He was quite an impressive man. I never knew if he was a Republican or a Democrat, although his family owned a large chain of department stores that directly competed with Goldwaters in Tucson and Phoenix. He also was a good friend of Barry Goldwater who often attended private dinners and spent hours in Frank's lush gardens talking late into the night. And Frank was openly gay.

Both Frank and his old Arizona friend placed a great deal of importance on the value of a liberal arts education. Medical schools in the USA still choose pre med students with dual English, History, Philosophy, or Political science majors over the "pure science" types. That may be changing, too. But what is more important to me is having had the opportunity to sit in on parts of those late night conversations (basically, making myself available to fetch fresh cocktails) and hearing a couple of well-educated men talk about their fears for the future of the USA. And their greatest fear was always the corruption of public education by extremists.

Personally, I never thought their fear was real. But obviously it is.

 

[maxcok]

Wow. What a fortunate and rare opportunity you had, Bear. How fortunate for Frank too. Jesuits are cool. Goldwater is cool too. Despite some of his early extreme positions, he mellowed into quite a statesman. He came to exemplify true Conservative values when the word actually had meaning.

 

[Qua]

That's why I like to make sure people keep their notions of "Christian" education and Catholic education separate. Most Catholic schools are some of the best in the country, no matter what order. The Jesuits and Marists do a great great job in instilling a usable background in philosophical analysis while not imposing religious belief.

 

[B_Nick4444]

OMG! another fantasy thread from the disconnected left, as usual with no connection to, or context within objective reality!

I would imagine that it never occurred to anyone that we are poised to see a dramatic change owing to the development of e-books?

while it is true that publishers are currently fighting tooth and nail to prevent e-books from usurping the lucrative textbook publishing and distribution sector, they stand as much chance as the music recording industry did in preventing the distribution of music in electronic data files.

 

[ZOS23xy]

OMG! another fantasy thread from the disconnected left, as usual with no connection to, or context within objective reality!

I would imagine that it never occurred to anyone that we are poised to see a dramatic change owing to the development of e-books?

while it is true that publishers are currently fighting tooth and nail to prevent e-books from usurping the lucrative textbook publishing and distribution sector, they stand as much chance as the music recording industry did in preventing the distribution of music in electronic data files.

No, people can select what they want to read. They can also drop the damn Kindles things and break them. I'm not too happy with downloads, as recently my hard drive died, and took away six weeks worth of music I had placed in bit by bit over two years. I lost a few albums. Some paid downloads. Attempt to work with an iPod caused it to erase 90 % of the hard drive.

It'll be a while before your verbal utopia happens. Mean time I was trying to figure out what you meant about "the disconnected left" without offering anything substance to back up your claims.

"Reality" depends on what you're pointing to--you point right, I point left. You don't want to meet anyone one in the middle.

 

[B_Nick4444]

No, people can select what they want to read. They can also drop the damn Kindles things and break them. I'm not too happy with downloads, as recently my hard drive died, and took away six weeks worth of music I had placed in bit by bit over two years. I lost a few albums. Some paid downloads. Attempt to work with an iPod caused it to erase 90 % of the hard drive.

It'll be a while before your verbal utopia happens. Mean time I was trying to figure out what you meant about "the disconnected left" without offering anything substance to back up your claims.

"Reality" depends on what you're pointing to--you point right, I point left. You don't want to meet anyone one in the middle.

"disconnected" from the reality that paper publishing is about to meet its demise, thus superseding the gravamen of the current thread, thus rendering it out of the emergent context

(consistent pattern I'm seeing on this board from the left -- as another example, the wailing and gnashing of teeth over some obscure, insignificant fundamentalist person and organization, with no significant numeric following, in the face of the opposite trend among the larger religious bodies)

and you're correct to point out the capability of being able to download anything -- opens up a floodgate of issues and concerns with the multiplicity of opposing and divergent viewpoints that exist -- what guidelines? whose oversight?

(which I of course will be addressing as time allows :biggrin1

 

[JustAsking]

yes, this is all true. The Texas Board of Education has a sordid history of being populated with Creationists. Its longtime chariman, Dan McElroy, who is a Young Earth Creationist has been replaced by another YEC, Gail Lowe. Both of them are enemies of science, but now they are importing all kinds of wingnuts to help rewrite the social studies curriculum as well.

Their cabal is somewhat of an extension of the Seattle based right wing lobbying firm called The Discovery Insitute. It is a PR and Lobbying firm that disguises itself as a scientific institute. Their basic goal is to roll back the Enlightenment.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Just out of curiosity -- do you hold Darwin as a scientist?

Do you subscribe to the theory that global warming is attributable to the accumulation of greenhouse gases as a result of man's activities?

 

[justasimpleguy]

Hey Nick, did you discover the thesaurus? Those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Hey Nick, did you discover the thesaurus? Those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

public school grad, I take it? :wink:

 

[maxcok]

Just out of curiosity -- do you hold Darwin as a scientist?

I have personally never been in a position to hold Darwin, but I do regard him as a scientist. Are you implying that you don't? I think the overwhelming majority of the general public do, whether or not they agree with his theories. Theories which subsequent scientific research has proven to be fact - at least in the minds of virtually all the reputable scientists that make up a vast and diverse scientific community. Ditto on global climate change 'theories'.


You are even more 'Neanderthal' than I dreamed possible.


This speaks volumes. 'Jurassic Park' has become a reality!

 

[B_Nick4444]

so, "evolution" as posited by Darwin is scientific fact, and the process Darwin used followed the scientific paradigm?

likewise, the greenhouse gasses theory is scientific fact?

 

[maxcok]

so, "evolution" as posited by Darwin is scientific fact?

likewise, the greenhouse gasses theory is scientific fact?

Ugg. Me no understand. Me ask smart friend here.

Smart friend here. Yes, as stated in the previous post Darwin's theories of Evolution of the Species have been overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community for quite some time now, and the evidence continues to prove it as fact, inasmuch as anything can be proven.

Likewise, climate change has been proven by countless scientific measures to be taking place on a global scale. Human activity, such as deforestation and the release of greenhouse gasses and other pollutants into the atmosphere, has been proven to be a major contributing factor, likely the major factor. Even if you do not believe in the causes, the evidence for global climate change (unfortunately disputed by Snowmageddonists) is very real. The progression is exponential, and the results will be catastrophic. We are close to a tipping point, if we are not there already. If we don't all get together quickly and do something about it, our goose is cooked. Literally.

From a fella with a 'public' education.

And your 'paradigm' edit, posted after my response, is irrelevant.

 

[JustAsking]

so, "evolution" as posited by Darwin is scientific fact, and the process Darwin used followed the scientific paradigm?

likewise, the greenhouse gasses theory is scientific fact?

Scientists concluded well before Darwin's time that evolution in terms of descent with modification was as close to a scientific fact as you could get. Darwin supplied a theory that described the mechanism that brings it about. In the 20th century, the massive accumulation of evidence for Darwin's theory was corrobrated by the development of microbiology and the science of genetics that grew out of the discovery of DNA.

What do you mean by the term "scientific paradigm"?

These days Darwin's basic theory has been augmented by a number of other mechanisms besides RM + NS. But it doesn't change the basic fact of descent with modification. Anyone whose dog has had a litter of puppies can attest to that.

Are there gasses in the atmosphere that create a greenhouse effect? yes there are. The transmissivity of certain gasses to infrared radiation is an easily demonstrated phenomenon. And that certain gasses are opaque to infrared is also a demonstratable phenomenon.

 

[maxcok]

^ ^ ^ Thanks smarter friend. I nominate you to write the textbooks. ^ ^ ^









What have you got to say, Nick de 6?

 

[Industrialsize]

Just out of curiosity -- do you hold Darwin as a scientist?

Do you subscribe to the theory that global warming is attributable to the accumulation of greenhouse gases as a result of man's activities?

Subscribe? NO Ascribe? Yes

 

[ZOS23xy]

so, "evolution" as posited by Darwin is scientific fact, and the process Darwin used followed the scientific paradigm?

likewise, the greenhouse gasses theory is scientific fact?

You're trying to make a syllogism from a few unrelated statements. One does not follow the other if one is held true.

Might be you didn't know that deposited within the soils of Sibera are are tons of methane and ammonia from freeze dried plants and animals and organic mud. The global thaw seems to be continuing from the north pole onward. To many of these gases would be exceedingly harmful if they were released a bit too quickly.

 

[maxcok]

You're trying to make a syllogism from a few unrelated statements. One does not follow the other if one is held true.

Quit using all them fancy words. You're just confusing him.

 

[Calboner]

You are such a removed dumbfuck from real life. You and the "squeeze" should just continue to saunter about in denial, and your every-so-often rips on America are tiresome. Midlifeprick... move already... denounce your citizenship since you shit on the US at every turn. No really.

Or maybe, for once, post a pic and/or verify yourself... fucking coward.

Oooh, Midlife, what a devastating counter-argument! Rebuts every point you made! Oh, no, wait a minute: actually, it doesn't address a single statement that you made. Well, I'm sure he meant to give a knock-down refutation.

OMG! another fantasy thread from the disconnected left, as usual with no connection to, or context within objective reality!

I would imagine that it never occurred to anyone that we are poised to see a dramatic change owing to the development of e-books?

while it is true that publishers are currently fighting tooth and nail to prevent e-books from usurping the lucrative textbook publishing and distribution sector, they stand as much chance as the music recording industry did in preventing the distribution of music in electronic data files.

The major part of publishing, both in terms of expense and in terms of what makes for products that people will want to read, is the editorial and marketing work, not the printing and distribution of books. That remains the case when the contents of books are delivered in electronic form. For a publisher (and the authors who write for it) to produce, say, one version of a textbook for Texas and other versions for other states would be unprofitable whether the books are distributed in printed form or electronic form. So the decisions made by the Texas School Board will continue to have a great deal of influence on what shows up in the textbooks of children in public schools across the US.

 

[Calboner]

Subscribe? NO Ascribe? Yes

Wrong, Indy. One subscribes to a theory, as to a magazine. One may ascribe a theory to someone, but "ascribe to a theory" is a misuse of the word. "Subscribe" can be an intransitive verb; "ascribe" is only transitive. It is roughly synonymous with "attribute."