Ask a Herzegovinian anything!

[cock23]

Do you think the situation there is more stable now that there are separate countries - or was it more peaceful in a united Yugoslavia? (but maybe that could never continue, judging from what happened...).

The short anwser to that is no. Slovenia is an exception: it's a lot more stable and prosperous then what it was, mainly because it's cut itself off from the rest of the Balkans and wants nothing further to do with the region! (Croatia is kind of getting there, but still has some major issues, like corruption). The region was on the whole a lot more stable and prosperous when Yugoslavia was united, but you're right when you say it couldn't have continued to exist-the countries that made it up had too many issues with each other so it would have broken up anyway at some point even if the recent war didn't happen.

 

[Catchoftheday]

Hello Mr Herzegovinian, why are you living in England?

 

[Drifterwood]

Is the European Song Contest better or worse with the Balkan Nations?

 

[cock23]

Hello Mr Herzegovinian, why are you living in England?

Because there's not much in my home town in terms of opportunities and jobs (unemployment rate at 40% etc.) My mum married my English stepfather (who was working with her in the UN) and as soon as all the paperwork was through, we were out of there!

Is the European Song Contest better or worse with the Balkan Nations?

Do you mean the quality of the music that gets put through every year?

 

[Drifterwood]

Do you mean the quality of the music that gets put through every year?

You can answer the question in anyway you like. If you qualify your opinion, that would be a bonus.

 

[cock23]

lol, well the music that's put through is just as bad as anywhere else in Europe. Though last year it hit a new low with this entry by B&H: YouTube - Laka - Pokusaj (Eurovision 2008 Final)
(It got 10th place as well-I worry about the sanity of the people who voted for them)

 

[798686]

Thanks for the answer, dude. Cheers for the pics too - it's such a beautiful area, it's a terrible shame the things that have happened there - but I guess you can say that about any beautiful place where wars have happened.

It does seem like the various countries have issues that go back hundreds of years (like Bosnia conquering part of what used to be Serbia in the 1400s). Is the war in the 1990s just the latest in a long line of feudal conflicts? I wonder what can ever be done to bring about peace in the area?

Maybe membership of the EU is a good idea for the Balkans. I'm not very fond of the EU (especially Britain being involved), although it might be good for the Balkans to be under a larger umbrella, so their attention isn't on each other quite as much.

 

[cock23]

No problem.

At first it may seem like that the problems in this recent war in the Balkans go back hundreds of years....but the anwser to that is that they don't. The late medieval wars with Serbia have next to no relation to what happened in the 1990's and have mostly been forgotten.

What stumps me though (and a lot of people in fact) is that Bosnia ( and Herzegovina) have always been nations of remarkable racial and religious tolerance and its people always fought for the country rather then agaisnt it, and in the 1990's we had a situation where everyone suddenly turned against each other and turned a society of tolerance and freedom into one of racism and hatred. Many people are surprised to discover that even in the middle ages, medieval Bosnian towns were ethnically 70-90% foreign (made up of Vlachs, Italians, Hungarians, Germans and others) and the native people happily took these people in like they were their own. In addition the native people practised 3 versions of Christianity between them without any fear of persecution. And look at the situation now, it just makes one think "why"

I think EU membership for the Balkans is a good idea as it will help to stabilise and economically improve the region, although like you I'm not very fond of the UK being in it.

 

[Calboner]

In medieval times, the area which is today's Herzegovina was known as "Zahumlje" or "Hum", and was first a part of Serbia until the Bosnians conquered the territory in the mid 14th century. But in 1446 the people of Hum decided that they wanted full independence from the Kingdom of Bosnia, and the Duke of Hum, Duke Stjepan Kosaca, dropped the title "Vojvoda of Bosnia" and took up the title "Herzeg" instead.

"Herzeg" is a word of German origin which also means "Duke", but used in this context it effectively declared full independence from Bosnia as Duke Stjepan effectively relinquished all ties to Bosnia. From then on until the present day, "Hum" has been known as "Herzeg's Land" or "Herzegovina", and this word effectively means "Dukeland".

"Dukedom" or "Duchy" would be an equally literal but less artificial translation. Thanks for the explanation. I often wondered about the name. I knew that it had to be connected with the German word "Herzog" (whose Magyar cognate is "herceg"), but I didn't know how.

 

[luka82]

Cock23, thank u for this thread!
Unfortunately it woke not so many pleasent memories...
What people need to know, is that Bosnian Muslims and Serbs have the same origin, main difference-RELIGION! Bosnian Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And when the Ottomans came to Bosnia, they had no problem converting "Bosnian BOGUMILE" into islam, many schoolars think it`s because Bosnian church was unique, heretic and didn`t have protection like Serbian Orthodox Church did in some eastern cities.
So the latest war was BROTHER AGAINST HIS BROTHER, and there was just too much blood....
too much...

 

[Northland]

Yeah, I was wondering, when Yugoslavia got broken up again a few years ago, was there a lot of annoyance or was it more a sense of gladness with things returning to the way they had been and which the residents wanted?

 

[798686]

Cock23, thank u for this thread!
Unfortunately it woke not so many pleasent memories...
What people need to know, is that Bosnian Muslims and Serbs have the same origin, main difference-RELIGION! Bosnian Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And when the Ottomans came to Bosnia, they had no problem converting "Bosnian BOGUMILE" into islam, many schoolars think it`s because Bosnian church was unique, heretic and didn`t have protection like Serbian Orthodox Church did in some eastern cities.
So the latest war was BROTHER AGAINST HIS BROTHER, and there was just too much blood....
too much...

Sad innit?

But the nice Balkan dudes on this site - from various countries - who seem to get on well, kinda seems like there's some hope after all. :smile:

 

[cock23]

Yeah, I was wondering, when Yugoslavia got broken up again a few years ago, was there a lot of annoyance or was it more a sense of gladness with things returning to the way they had been and which the residents wanted?

It depends who you talk to. The Montenegrins consider themselves a distinct people and they were too happy to have independence from Serbia, and it's fair to say that most of them were glad that things were back to the way they had been before Yugoslavia was formed.

Serbia, on the other hand, is incredibly annoyed to say the least. Most Serbs consider the Montenegrins to be a southern branch of the Serbian race, and Serbia see Montenegro declaring independence as a direct betrayal and aren't glad that this has happened at all.

 

[luka82]

Serbia, on the other hand, is incredibly annoyed to say the least. Most Serbs consider the Montenegrins to be a southern branch of the Serbian race, and Serbia see Montenegro declaring independence as a direct betrayal and aren't glad that this has happened at all.

This part just isn`t true!
My dad is from Cetinje, Montenegro, but I was raised in Serbia, and the Montenegrans know that they are IN FACT Serbians.....
But they wanted indipedence, they got, no big deal!
Serbia never had issues with that!
Yes some political parties were pissed, but Montenegro hasn`t been a part of Serbia`s teritory in modern history, u know what i mean.
What really pisses Serbia is Kosovo`s indipedence...
I, on the other hand, only want peace and prosperity for all...
I`m a good person:smile:

 

[luka82]

Yeah, I was wondering, when Yugoslavia got broken up again a few years ago, was there a lot of annoyance or was it more a sense of gladness with things returning to the way they had been and which the residents wanted?

I think that every war makes no sense, but this war was just CRAZY!
Things are getting back to normal now.... And I am really glad people are starting to get along...
Young people from all pars of Ex Yugoslavia are much better than their fathers....

 

[cock23]

This part just isn`t true!
My dad is from Cetinje, Montenegro, but I was raised in Serbia, and the Montenegrans know that they are IN FACT Serbians.....
But they wanted indipedence, they got, no big deal!
Serbia never had issues with that!
Yes some political parties were pissed, but Montenegro hasn`t been a part of Serbia`s teritory in modern history, u know what i mean.
What really pisses Serbia is Kosovo`s indipedence...
I, on the other hand, only want peace and prosperity for all...
I`m a good person:smile:

I would have to disagree with you. Over the years I've met many Montenegrins who have told me that they don't consider themselves Serbian. If you go back 20-30 years ago what you say would probably have been correct, but in the modern era there has been a huge increase in Montenegrin nationalism and many have become keen to distance themselves. And I'm sure you know that there is even a "Crnogorski jezik/Montenegrin language" now which is being taught in schools there instead of "Serbian".

I also have a Montenegrin friend here who came to the UK 2 years ago. (And considers herself Montenegrin, not Serb). And she cites ethnic tensions with the Serbs and political tensions with Serbia since independence as one of the main reasons she has left the country without ever intending to return. I don't know how true this is, but she says Serbia has done things like barring Montenegrin students from going to Serbian universities as "punishment" for declaring independence. (Though again I can't say how true or not this is). But I've met her Montenegrin friends who also came to live here and they all say the same as she does, so I don't know.

Also I didn't know you were from Serbia? Govoriš li naš jezik? :smile:

 

[Calboner]

Also I didn't know you were from Serbia? Govoriš li naš jezik? :smile:

Wow, that's almost the same as it would be in Russian: "Говоришь ли наш язык?" (though probably "ли" would be omitted).

I also know how to say "Fuck your soul!" in Serbo-Croatian (I learned it from The Good Soldier Švejk).

 

[798686]

I, on the other hand, only want peace and prosperity for all...
I`m a good person:smile:

Aww. hehe. :tongue:

I think Serbia has joined the Schengen Visa zone (maybe also Croatia and Bosnia?) but I heard Kosovo hasn't been allowed to yet - any news on this?

 

[B_hungprepjock]

Frankly, I worry about the sanity of anyone who would watch the Eurovision Song Contest (either in whole or in part). They're just the sort of people who would be likely to start a civil war, it seems to me, with its pointless emphasis on anachronistic 'tribalism.'

It also seems a little strange to me we're actually discussing the Balkanisation of... The Balkans.

Which newly autonomous Balkan 'nation,' then, do you think, would be most ripe, economically speaking (or most rife with desperate-for-work 'talent'), for someone like George Duroy to swoop in and establish a gay porn industry, as he did in Bratislava after the so-called 'Velvet Revolution' precipitated the break-up of Czechoslovakia?

 

[luka82]

I would have to disagree with you. Over the years I've met many Montenegrins who have told me that they don't consider themselves Serbian. If you go back 20-30 years ago what you say would probably have been correct, but in the modern era there has been a huge increase in Montenegrin nationalism and many have become keen to distance themselves. And I'm sure you know that there is even a "Crnogorski jezik/Montenegrin language" now which is being taught in schools there instead of "Serbian".

I also have a Montenegrin friend here who came to the UK 2 years ago. (And considers herself Montenegrin, not Serb). And she cites ethnic tensions with the Serbs and political tensions with Serbia since independence as one of the main reasons she has left the country without ever intending to return. I don't know how true this is, but she says Serbia has done things like barring Montenegrin students from going to Serbian universities as "punishment" for declaring independence. (Though again I can't say how true or not this is). But I've met her Montenegrin friends who also came to live here and they all say the same as she does, so I don't know.

Also I didn't know you were from Serbia? Govoriš li naš jezik? :smile:

Ok, where to start...
I usually spend a month or 2 a year in Montenegro, I do have a big family there...so all the things I say about Montenegro are true! and lots and lots of Montenegrins study in Serbia and have the same rights just like Serbian students....My friend is from Tivat(Montenegro) and he studies in Belgrade( Serbia) and he has a full scholarship...
When Montenegro declared it`s independency, it was a hard won battle, cause it was almost 50-50 on a referendum..
I have an aunt in Herceg Novi and she says she is a Serbian, and her brother from Cetinje says he is Montenegran!!! WTF!!! That is why this is so messed up!!!
But i still love Montenegro, those are crazy fuckers!:biggrin1:
Da, naravno da govorim! ja sam iz Srbije:wink: