Manners count, sure they do but as a means not an end. What manners 'mean' is obviously subjective but so long as personal offence is not intended I don't have any
real issue with how anything is said. If personal offence
is intended then that's a whole other ball of wax. As MZ says, it's all about 'style'.
Here I feel similarly to JeffBlack, unless there is a need for abusive language, petty name calling as banter, for which LPSG is a gem, I don't see what place it has in an 'intelligent discussion', and most especially when it's used simply to to make a point, because, to me at least it just doesn't. It can show frustration and depth of feeling without doubt but it
may also indicate limited ability though the these are
not co-dependent.
To me telling someone to 'shut the fuck up' or name calling simply because they won't, or can't, respond to your argument in the way
you want, or because they have said something to upset you is understandable but it also begs the question; is that the best you have? It doesn't inspire me to try and dig a little deeper, or try a new approach. When the poster is clearly intelligent and articulate, I don't know, it seems a waste.
As MZ says this may be partly cultural, and in that vein and without wishing to polarise the issue, a question; are US citizens (here anyway) more ready to use verbal extremism than say, Europeans or Asians? From my perspective I would say they are but only just and is that merely cultural and thus unconscious. That's not a critisicm, I like directness but there isn't there surely a point where directness becomes offense or swearing merely tedious?
A little background (FWIW) I lived for a few years in a part of north Liverpool where talking 'posh' (I grew up in West Wirral, a 'posh' area it seems) or without 'Fuck','Ya wat', 'like','ya know', 'tosser' or some such thing being what seemed like every third word could result in a sound kicking, I was younger and less confident then so I learned to 'fit in' but it never sat comfortably with me. When I left I vowed that I would never speak 'that way' again. I'm sure I still could of course should the need arise, I just choose not to.
I see an interesting theme here about the apprarent 'insincerity' of being rude or insulting 'politely'. I wonder where that comes from, and again this is me thinking out loud so please don't bite my head off; is it a genuine belief that cursing is cleaner and more 'honest', or that it's simply more efficient or is it in part at least frustration that someone is unable to articulate anger
without resorting to foul language? I'm sure all the above are true depending on the person and their level of anger.
rawbone8 said:
Disagreements are the heart of discussion and debate and occasionally lead to flaming. FLAMING erodes any real communication. But it can be very amusing since that's what many come here to enjoy drama. Childish drama, not so much. It gets tedious....
Rawbone, that says it better than I just did.:smile:
BronxBombshell said:
In my opinion, manners are for when you mean them. I detest insincerety more than rudeness. Rudeness bothers me not because it's rude, but because I don't want the person to feel that way. However, once I see how they feel, I can easily make peace with their feelings and either leave them alone, or try to sway them. Or antagonize them. I am admittedly antagonistic under certain circumstances.
I agree, and there seems to be a subtle or sometimes overt undercurrent of
politeness=insincerity. That's utter rubbish. I don't believe you subscribe to that and I agree that sometimes it is necessary to be antagonistic to try and provoke a response. I have to, I've done so myself.
I think there is a world of difference between passionate debate and attack dog mode. On LPSG without visual cues it's not always as easy to tell them apart. What did really bug me, and I don't know Stronzo if this is in part which provoked this thread? was the 'verbal lynching' of Pichulon. It could have been anyone, and probably me next but, asshole or not, to me it stood out as being unusually vindictive and callous. Maybe it's just me.
In a sentence. My approach here is to post unto others as I would wish them to post unto me. If you don't like that;
you can fuck right off.:tongue::wink: